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Original poster

You scumbag You maggot you cheap lousy…

192 replies

TeaAndToast8 · 20/05/2025 21:51

My second AIBU Of the night, husbands being very argumentative! Anyway, I’ve screenshot two examples of what the Kirsty MacColl might have meant in Fairy Tale of NewYork. Who is correct.. My opinion is the description underlined in red and my husband’s is blue.

You scumbag You maggot you cheap lousy…
OP posts:
BuntyBeaufort · 21/05/2025 09:04

My 1938 Concise Oxford Dictionary defines a faggot as a bundle of sticks used as fuel, which I certainly remember from fairy tales, and a dish of chopped offal.
It clearly didn’t count Irish colloquialisms, and was before the word was hi-jacked by American homophobes.

Boomer55 · 21/05/2025 08:58

Word meanings change. Gay used to mean happy, and nothing to do with sexuality. 😉

randomchap · 21/05/2025 08:53

Christmas does seem to come round quicker every year

lljkk · 21/05/2025 08:51

It's 2 people trying to wind each other up, of course they are lobbing insulting language at each other. The real language they would used would be too Anglo Saxon for radio play.

x2boys · 21/05/2025 08:47

SeaShellsSanctuary1 · 21/05/2025 07:54

Americans can have their faggot if we can have our fanny

Edited

Yeah the use of fanny packs ( bum bags ) always amuses me on various American Facebook groups I'm on.

x2boys · 21/05/2025 08:45

SapphOhNo · 20/05/2025 22:14

Words change meaning. Everyone knows faggot is a derogatory term for gay men yet seem to want to defend its use to high heavens every Christmas.

Because it's a fantastic song IMO, and it's supposed to be controversial and the very opposite of a fairytale.

LoafofSellotape · 21/05/2025 08:41

Berryslacks · 20/05/2025 22:00

Yes this. My Irish Nan often used to call people ‘lazy little faggots’.

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So did mine !

soupyspoon · 21/05/2025 08:34

3peassuit · 21/05/2025 08:07

Look them up Brain’s faggots. They’re on Tesco’s website too.

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A good quality home made faggot, often found in country pubs is far superior to Brains.

TheGrimSmile · 21/05/2025 08:19

*faggot

TheGrimSmile · 21/05/2025 08:18

My grandma used to call people "noisy faggots" if they were being loud. It definitely didn't mean homosexual when she used it. I think that use ie gay, has come from America more recently. When this song came out in the uk, nobody used the term maggot to describe a gay person.

CurlewKate · 21/05/2025 08:10

Here come the professionally unoffended……

3peassuit · 21/05/2025 08:07

TopographicalTime · 21/05/2025 07:29

Seriously?! I've only ever heard of faggots in older novels, are they really still sold and what's actually in them? 'offal' is pretty vague as a description

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Look them up Brain’s faggots. They’re on Tesco’s website too.

soupyspoon · 21/05/2025 08:04

ClareBlue · 21/05/2025 00:04

If you read the lyrics it is absolutely a term to insult. Any other interpretation is just not correct and makes no sens what so ever. Doesn't matter if it is used affectionately in some contexts with Irish Granny, in this song it is an insult as part of an exchange which accuses one of being a 'bum' 'a punk' 'an old slut on junk' and the other as 'scumbag' 'maggot'. The next line saying 'cheap lousy faggot' isn't suddenly affectionate, isn't about meat balls, sticks or a little ribbing between drunks.
Not sure why people are trying to reinvent facts. It doesn't reflect any view, it depicts a drunken argument which involve slurs, and which, I would say, Shane had seen plenty of in his life.

Who is saying its not an insult?

Its an insult but its nothing to do with gay men, she's simply calling him useless.

soupyspoon · 21/05/2025 08:00

GenderFluid90 · 20/05/2025 22:46

It does and you know it.

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How does it, its short for faggot, being something you burn. You smoke and burn your fags.

Wolfpa · 21/05/2025 07:59

TeaAndToast8 · 20/05/2025 22:22

In the song

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Your husband is correct about the song. It is reference to a bundle of sticks so being lazy.

SeaShellsSanctuary1 · 21/05/2025 07:54

Americans can have their faggot if we can have our fanny

Ddakji · 21/05/2025 07:54

It always amuses me (not really) that they remove faggot but leave in slut.

MatildaMovesMountains · 21/05/2025 07:50

pinkstripeycat · 21/05/2025 07:32

I think it’s silly when we are told to refrain from using words that have been given a new, offensive meaning.

I know someone called Gay (in her 70s), is she still allowed to used her own name?
My Nan used to say queer all the time. It means odd.

I bet you loved to talk about bloody noses in front of your teacher, wearing a silly smirk and thinking you were incredibly clever 🙄

MatildaMovesMountains · 21/05/2025 07:49

Gotta love an invitation to post all the slurs you don't normally get to use, all while maintaining a wide-eyed innocence 🙄

pinkstripeycat · 21/05/2025 07:32

I think it’s silly when we are told to refrain from using words that have been given a new, offensive meaning.

I know someone called Gay (in her 70s), is she still allowed to used her own name?
My Nan used to say queer all the time. It means odd.

TopographicalTime · 21/05/2025 07:29

3peassuit · 20/05/2025 22:27

You can get them in the freezer isle at my local Tesco.

Seriously?! I've only ever heard of faggots in older novels, are they really still sold and what's actually in them? 'offal' is pretty vague as a description

SwanOfThoseThings · 21/05/2025 07:24

Anyway, who is doing a Christmas Eve box for their DC this year? And will their stockings come from 'Father Christmas' or 'Santa'?

StMarie4me · 21/05/2025 07:18

Although not written as a gay slur, nor sung as such, Kirsty was herself aware of the way the line was being weaponised and changed it the last few times she sang it live to “you’re cheap and you’re haggard”.
That’s all there is to say about her iconic song.

Serpentstooth · 21/05/2025 07:15

Long time ago, before West London became trust fund heaven, I passed a rough old pub, the KPH, on my way home. It was about 20 minutes past closing time and a drunken and unconscious woman lay on the doorstep, bleeding from a head wound. I called an ambulance and, while waiting, her husband turned up, equally drunk. He booted her in the ribs and began shouting a tirade of insults at her that would not be out of place in FONY. None of it was flattering or showed concern. Had his wife been in a state to respond, I expect she would have returned similar. I think of this couple whenever I hear FONY, written about them and millions of other couples with tongues untrammelled by Christmas drink. Rewriting history and language is a dangerous practice. Let writers write.

WhenICalledYouLastNightFromTesco · 21/05/2025 01:46

Carpaltoenail · 21/05/2025 01:42

I’d still use fag to mean cigarette and I’d never use it to mean “gay man” and the meaning would be obvious from the context. Eg “she was just smoking fags and doing nothing”.

I’d personally never say faggot because in my experience it’s only ever offensive. But it’s obviously very regional and I wouldn’t dream of telling people who’ve experienced its use as an inoffensive term that they’re remembering wrong or that their (highly respected) dictionary is poor 🙄

It's another name for a meatball. Don't talk about people's poor dictionary, and certainly don't try to tell people what they should, or should not find offensive.

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