To think unless you are ugly you’ve no idea what it’s like

Anyone who is urging op to get her hair done, get make up, get a makeover are perpetuating the problem because that suggests that she should tackle the problem of society not valuing ugly people, by making herself prettier and more acceptable any way she can, rather than society not placing so much importance on people having to be attractive to be acceptable.

Im overweight, short, don't wear make up, get my hair done very occasionally, i don't wear expensive clothes. I'm just as worthy as a human as the 6ft slim beautiful model next to me. I don't have to put make up on and style my hair to make that truer.

Im sorry thar's been your experience, ot's certainly not been mine. I know both assholes and fantastic people at all levels of attractiveness. My best friend from childhood is beautiful inside and out, one of the most wonderful people you could meet. The point is to seperate character from looks, not to perform preemptive character assasinations of peoole based on their looks, whatever end of the attractiveness spectrum they lie on.

FFS! You clearly have no idea of the reality for people like the OP and myself.

We do get passed over for more conventionally attractive people in all aspects of life. That’s a simple fact. 🤷🏻‍♀️

As you and your friends get older, it becomes a bit less obvious as even the attractive ones get overlooked when someone under 30 turns up. When that happens, sometimes the penny drops with the older friend but rather than stand in solidarity, they usually mourn their loss of youth and attractiveness, quite petulantly. 😂

As a dc my aunt told my younger dsis that she was very pretty.
She then turned to me and said ‘ you’re not pretty but your attractive and it will last you longer.’
Of course 10 year old me was very upset ( I hid it well) and I never forgot aunt’s remark.
Just as a hurtful remark on weight can trigger anorexia, my aunt triggered a life of me working on my looks.
I’m sure some people think I’m vain, I’m not I just spend my life compensating for not looking pretty.
I have my mum’s hook nose, my dad’s crossover teeth and now my eyes are baggy.

I often think how easier my life would have been with self confidence, my own dm still comments on my big ears, my need to wear glasses. I’m in my 60’s now.
My dsis was always the pretty, blonde dc.

@Riverrunswild83 I’m sorry that through no fault of your own life has dealt you an unfair hand in life. Believe me though that beauty really is skin deep.
I still use make up to go out but I try really hard to be a confident, joyful human that people feel comfortable to be with whilst still maintaining boundaries and expecting respect.

Because she feels like it? Are you the thread police? Why click on topics that do not interest you and then write rude comments?

But not all women still want to look great at 60+.

It starts much younger than that, how many posters on this forum saying that once they've had a child, that's it, their body is gone forever and it's normal to resign yourself to look overweight.

And that's only the mums.

You never look like a 20 year old in your 60s, you will become invisible to younger people (who wants to be fancied by a 30 yo in your 60s? That's weird)
You will be LESS attractive than a younger woman, but you can still exist. It doesn't come naturally for most women, but being attractive is still a choice.

Seriously, I love people who are not attractive to look at.
I find them the most easy to be around and the best companians. I don't even see 'ugly', I see interesting and different.
I feel relaxed and like I don't have to look really primed.
Pretty people make me nervous.
They make me not forget to wear make up; I feel less than them yet I know it's not their fault that they were given a beautiful gene.
Truly, I think people who are fatter, or less sporty or less clever or less pretty than the best, offer a comfort factor. They are warm and beautiful to be around because there is no pressure. They often have unusual crafts and hobbies.

Being part of a large family illuminates my opinions on beauty. I value everyone, adore all my cousins, aunts etc. Some are pretty and some are champions and some are CEOs but many more are regular, hard workers, chubby, failures at sport and read non challenging books. They are all of the same value to my family and all nice to hang out with.

These threads always bring out answers from people who are viewing things from the perspective of an idealised world, not the world we actually live in. Yes, there are people who will recognise beauty in someone who is 60+ but the reality is that, to many people (not just men, although more men than women) women of middle age and beyond become invisible. If you've spent your younger years receiving insults from strangers because you are the ugly one, this is an absolute boon.

In terms of levelling the playing field, that's one way in which it happens - to many, we are all invisible.

It's also the case that not all women are 'still great looking at 60+' even if they were attractive in their younger days. Like youthful attractiveness, attractiveness in middle age and beyond is largely a matter of genetics (i.e. luck) - there is only so much that skincare/make up/treatments can do. The proportion of 'great looking women' reduces as we all age. That's the second way in which the playing field is levelled.

So whilst you can still be great looking at 60+, you are less attractive to men, is that what you mean about the playing field levelling?

@Riverrunswild83 pretty people without doubt are treated better. I try not to call myself anything that wouldn’t say to a friend be that ugly, thick etc.

you need new friends who celebrate you for being you.

Bottom line yes I am ugly I was bullied because of my appearance throughout school and even my FIL has made comments.

Even the best looking women spend a lot of time and money on maintenance and enhancing themselves. Things such as having a nice hairstyle, spending money on good hair and skin products and wearing good clothes that fit properly will bump up anyone a few notches.

You can also try weightlifting to tone your body, eat healthy for glowing skin and hair. Take collagen powder.

Then there’s the hair extensions, lash extensions, make up, beauty treatments and even Botox or plastic surgery.

Very, very few women are accidentally beautiful. We all have to put effort in and when you get older, everyone gets ugly so it’s fine.

That being said, even the most stunning person can become unattractive through a shit personality.

I have days where I think I’m pretty gross and other days where I think I’m ok. I think all women, to some degree think they are unattractive.

To summarise- there are some things about your physical appearance that you can control and some you can’t. Highlight your attributes and be a nice person and you’ll do ok.

@Renabrook you said a lot without actually saying anything, really.

There have been multiple studies on what men find attractive. Yes, it’s a study, not set in stone, but it gives an overview.

It’s also very bog standard, expected finding though: clear skin, long hair, good posture, etc. Nothing surprising.

It could just be your own perception of what they’re saying but if it’s not, your friends sound like dicks. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be a little more trendy.

Surround yourself with friends that hype you up.

ok so this obsession with women thinking they have to look good so they can trap and keep a man, if there was a survey done and men were shown photos different types of women so natural woman, women with a little or a tonne of makeup up, women who have fillers and other beauty enhancement surgery, and any other shape and sizes of women and the men were told to be totally honest and select who they would find good looking to them so everyone's partners on here and their exe''s or just men in general are asked

How many would pick would be the fake ones and say they genuinely like that look?

There is lots of 'well men like' in society but if men were asked what would there actual responses be?

and no it is not all about men it just feels that is all women on here seem to be concerned about and are desperate to get and keep and spend heaps of their life thinking about them

Sorry, I should add though that I tried softly setting up to friends a while ago, both great friends. The guy is very obese, not hot but fun. The woman, slim, tall but as you say, not objectively pretty, more elegant and willowy, think Trinny type. I found it interesting as my male friend was very disparaging about her looks later, when actually he really was unhealthy looking himself whereas she was just not the usual pretty. He told me hed never date someone like her. Made me think that men genuinely favour the looks, regardless of how they look themselves. Made me look at my male friend quite negatively if im honest.

Your friends sound ugly op. I have had more respect for people if they are kind than if they are beautiful.

Such an interesting thread, I was always overweight, wonky teeth, never the pretty one at school but lots of friends/decent personality. I assumed i was invisible in dating but i worked on my personality so ended up getting those great jobs anyway. I grew up and actually then got a lot of attention when dating on the apps by men saying I didn't see how sexy I was. Deep inside i saw myself as a bit of a slob/lumberer. I think somehow you have to believe in yourself and what you can offer. I still go through low points when I feel that way but have to force myself to be happy in myself.

You may not believe this, but there are disadvantages to being attractive too. In the workplace you can be seen as a bit “soft” or not serious enough. You mention struggling with friendships - this can be extremely difficult for attractive people too, as people can be so bitchy if you trigger their jealousy. They can see you as “competition”, no matter what you do or don’t do, or project their insecurities onto you.

I say this, not to invalidate your experience, but more so to provide perspective.

Anyway, what I will say about your friends is that they don’t sound like particularly nice people, I’m afraid! I do concede certain things may be easier for conventionally attractive people, but life shouldn’t be as difficult as you say it is based on this alone and I do suspect that you’ve not been surrounded by the “right” people.

In terms of your self-image, could you try a makeover? Do you apply makeup? You can contact makeup counters and ask for their help - they can book you in to both match you with products and show you how to use them properly. Less is more. Tame the mane regularly if you’re not already and don’t just throw it up/leave it to its own devices every day. Whether that’s achieved via products or heat tools will depend on your hair type and how you want it to look. Consistency is key to looking out together. Watch YouTube tutorials specific to your hair type and your goals.

A good skincare and oral care routine is a must, too. Again, less is more with skincare. Theres so much on the market but honestly I just love the brand ‘Simple’ - a good twice daily cleanser, moisturiser and an SPF for under makeup will do the trick. Get a good electric toothbrush and book regular dental check ups if you’re not already, and maybe invest in either Invisalign or a whitening course if either of those things would work for you. Also so important to move and nourish your body with the right foods.

You say you have hobbies. Lean into these even more - you can meet people through your hobbies whereby your connection will be more than surface deep. And hey, perhaps your current friends are actually threatened by your personality, wit, talents, etc etc… who knows? Their “looks” may be all they have…

Most importantly, you are NOT worthless!! Good luck!

We live in a very visual world. Most of us are fairly average I would say. Men seem to want to be rude x2 ,if young and pretty.they will try it on .young women being followed or cat called.plainer girls having rude comments, how dare they not look fuckable! I am sure you are fairly average op

Jeezus Christmas @Riverrunswild83 Those "friends" are. Not. Friends. It sounds more like you're their punching bag. Seriously. Get rid.
Do you feel like you can live with your looks and just change your hair, make-up, clothing and experiment with that like you have always wanted to? Or, is it something you want to actually change through dental/ortho, derm/plastic surgeon; personal trainer?
Whatever it is, life is too short to be unhappy. Do what makes you feel good about yourself. And, please, find new friends who will accept you and support you what ever you look like. Don't accept any less. 🩷

I think confidence is a massive factor, whether attractive or not. Mostly, confidence comes more naturally to those who are attractive, but I don’t think it’s just physical appearance.

OP and to all saying they’re sure she isn’t ugly - there are actually several studies that measure attractiveness (something to do with facial symmetry and proportions). The further you are from that ideal the less attractive you’re considered. Other studies show more attractive people do benefit from tangible things like shorter prison sentences, higher salaries etc. so there are tangible benefits to being more attractive, and penalties for being less so. As someone very unattractive I have experienced everything OP describes, plus bullying throughout school, uni and my early career, and random acts of abuse from strangers as I just try go about my day.

It’s not fair and does still sting, but I the one advantage I have found is that I’ve had to work on more important parts of myself to “survive” in a world not made for ugly people. I’m smarter, more compassionate, more patient, more sensible, better at detecting BS, and much more resilient than many even slightly more attractive people I know. I also have developed a certain confidence and peace around my looks - especially as I age I don’t really care because my looks were never my defining feature. OP - I empathize, focus on the non-physical related nice parts of who you are. How we look is only one part of who we are, and I dare say, one of the least important.

I've been called 'incredibly plain' and 'hit with the ugly stick', and was bullied about my weird looks throughout my school years and early adulthood.

It hurt terribly when I was younger. But then I started regarding this data as a useful method of weeding out people I had no intention of wasting further time on. Boy, did that free up some time!

Dear OP, I feel your pain. But please value yourself enough to weed out your awful 'friends' and find some decent ones. Life will improve markedly when you surround yourself with decent, intelligent, caring people.

Surprised at the votes here. I'm sure pretty people might have a better time of it if they don't have any issues, but like anyone else they might have their own problems like getting a lot of unwanted attention or inappropriate comments. Sometimes they get judged more too.

I'm not attractive in my opinion and probably have worked harder in life knowing that, but I think friendly, confident people can achieve well in life, both socially and professionally . It's how you project yourself regardless of how you look.

Also, your friends sound dreadful. Find some new ones who don't laugh at you!

Or people could just accept people for who they are, fake tan looks like you have dunked yourself in tea, the clue is in the name 'fake' maybe the effort could be in being a good person and not looking fake?