To think unless you are ugly you’ve no idea what it’s like

And mardy with it?!

Well im considered conventionally attractive and no one likes me so I don’t agree op. I think people like confidence and interest in others. Im an aloof arsehole.

Nerdy, not needy.

No, not needy!

I love faces with a bit of a quirk.

I don't understand George Clooney being so revered as handsome. I suppose he is classically, put him next to Robert Peston though and I know who's flingy mad hands I want 🤣

Oh that's 2 threads now... The other one, I want Jarvis Cocker for PM.

I might have a type. Skinny and needy!

It helps to have friends who are also plain and ordinary

I suppose I can see why being surrounded by stunning people might not be good for your self esteem, but it seems a shame to form your friendships this way. Most people, by definition, are ordinary.

Telling someone a crooked nose can be beautiful is great if you don't follow it up with 'if you just...'
Maybe I expressed myself badly, but my point was that a crooked nose is just a nose. Some will like it, some won't. Some will think it's a flaw, others will think it's making the whole face beautiful.
I have seen people looking much more attractive with a crooked nose than with their new tiny straight surgery built nose.

What I needed to hear was how to accept my looks
I wouldn't be able to say that because I don't believe in this however. You have to work to accept yourself to a point, but if something is really bothering you, you should work to change it. Life's too short.

Is that the Royal 'we' or are you now speaking on behalf of the entirety of MN?
I don't mind either way. I just wanted to be clear.

You let it all out.

I am very plain, and also now a little overweight (working on it) and I know what you mean. There is definitely a “pretty privilege” in the world.

I look better when dressed smartly and with make up but am very ordinary really.

Rise above the “friends” (they are not by the way). As we age, the playing field definitely levels out.

It helps to have friends who are also plain and ordinary, and a partner who loves you.

This is one of the saddest things I’ve ever read. Get yourself some different friends @Riverrunswild83 and book yourself in for some counselling.

Sending love and strength 😍 👊 😍

Okay.

You carry on.

Please do, it'll amuse me for a while.

What I needed to hear was how to accept my looks, not all the things I could do to make me look 'better'.

Ugly people usually hear about it from other people. It's not just that we can see it, it's that it's enough for people to comment on. It's not simply that someone says your hair isn't nice, or whatever.

I have been called ugly by strangers in the street. It's not just my opinion.

Telling someone a crooked nose can be beautiful is great if you don't follow it up with 'if you just...'

What I am talking about is living with what you look like, rather than the well-meaning notions of finding ways to minimise it
'You could be pretty if...'

There's no 'if'. I am not pretty. What I needed was not to hear how I could be pretty if....but how to accept it and make it less of a barrier in my life.

I look worse when I smile. Scrunches my face up in an unappealing way!

There is a kind of man who loves to think that everything women do is intended to snare him and he absolutely loves to feel like he's cutting them down to size. I've no idea what you look like but this guy was rooted in sheer misogyny and, I suspect, the type of male rage that comes from what some men see as women's sexual power over them. Try not to let it take up any more of your thoughts. That's what makes him happy.

it's not?

No one is claiming everyone has perfect features. Having ugly teeth doesn't make you ugly though.

I bet many people have looked in the mirror and honestly believed they were ugly. I have. I have cried looking at my face. Apparently I am not ugly by any standard. Other days I am ok with what I have got, and work with that.

I've only been told I'm beautiful or pretty when wearing makeup.

Without makeup I'm very plain. With rosacea. 😒

I definitely get treated better when I am wearing makeup. But then I feel better when I do. I'm also very overweight but have a passing face with makeup on.

I've had comments in the past about my weight though. Usually from young guys.

Literally every statement here is quite blatantly false (except perhaps the one about you being 50 with a shaved head, I wouldn't know and I don't know why it's relevant) and it's simply cementing in my mind that you are seeing things as you are and not as they are. But we knew that.

My nose spreads across my face when I smile 🤣 It's big anyway, but at least with a straight face it's err... Straight!

Smile, and my nose smiles with me!!

You couldn't be more wrong about an emotive topic and I wasn't attacking you.
If I'm misunderstanding, so be it, we'll leave it there. No need to get passive aggressive with your assumptions that you're upsetting me though. I'm a 50 year old woman with a shaved head 🤣 I couldn't give a tinker's cuss what you think of me.

Does anyone else look worse when they smile? My face goes witch like when I do. I look like a Disney wicked witch. No glowing skin or beautiful eyes, just sinister looking.

I've never been chatted up or flirted with by men. I remember chatting with a guy once, I laughed at something he said and I think he then thought I was flirting with him, got incredibly offended and started making cruel comments and looking at me with disgust.

I bet if we actually saw a photo of these people who insist on calling themselves ugly, we'd all just think they were average looking. Like the pp, I don't walk round and think wow what an ugly person at anyone. Most people aren't amazingly beautiful or supermodels are they? It's like the incel culture...these men who are apparently incels are usually totally average looking blokes...their actual problem is invariably social awkwardness rather than their looks. I have known all kinds of very ordinary, even verging on unattractive men be able to attract women with their confidence, humour and personality.

I love the word minter! Ffs. Munter! I've not heard that for years.

MuntersRUs.

I remember when a friend started doing Avon years ago, she had all these testers, she needed some sales - all of a sudden it was Big50 why do you never make the best of yourself?
Let me make you over.

I felt looking in the mirror that I'd been attacked by a 3 year old with red! Aunt Sally cheeks (if you remember her) bright red lips. Brown eyeshadow ( just to bring out the Night of The Living Dead) all finished off with a glitter highlighter all over.

She didn't make a sale 🤣

I might have been able to pull it off in a dank basement full of skagheads, but I decided to cleanse before we did the school run.

I did bleach my hair in lock down as I'd always wondered what blonde would be like.

Yeah. My then teenage daughter told me it didn't suit my red freckly face (Irish skin!).
That was that!

I just shave my head now (well grade 8)I had dreadlocks many moons ago. I think I rebel against the norm.

That's a lot of BS if ever I heard it!

Actually, thinking about it, I have seen people who I thought "what the heck"
It's people who had gone overboard on plastic surgery, and it makes me (and others) wince thinking "what have they done to their poor face".

I have never found Joan Rivers ugly, she thought she was, she famously said it repeatedly. Towards the end of her life, she wasn't remotely trying to have a natural face, but at her age, who says natural alternative would have been better.
She wasn't ugly, but a bit over-worked maybe, for my taste.

Charisma is so much more important than looks

I AM ugly, though. I wasn't pleased with what I was.

how do you want me to comment? You THINK you are ugly, but I have no idea what you look like, so I can't possibly judge.

I know I have never seen an ugly person, someone making me "oh no".

I have seen people who had a problem with their nose for example, and had surgery to fix it - and while I can understand and it's their face, I thought it actually ruined it, removing all the personality and their old nose suited their face so much better.
In itself, a crooked nose doesn't make someone "ugly". You can be beautiful with a crooked nose. I know it's only a detail, and it's about your general appearance

but most people have issues with at least one part of their body/ face, even stunning people, nothing to do with being ugly.

We can do a lot to take advantage of the beauty privilege by being :

Healthy,
Well groomed,
Pleasant,
Mannerly,
Respectful, fun, and
Emotionally regulated.

People tend to be attracted to symmetrical faces and healthy bodies. Quiet confidence is elegant.