Woman declared legally dead is being kept alive due to state’s abortion laws

That one was Ireland I believe, but it's happened all over the world, with mixed results in terms of the baby. I think this case is one of or possibly the earliest though.

Though, looking there was also a Nevada case around the same time.

It happens in countries with more liberal abortion laws as well as restrictive ones. The difference is that it's usually only done with the families blessing, and therefore doesn't hit the media. Even Canada have done it and they are one of the most liberal countries in the world for abortion. Granted it was 2nd trimester not 1st and with the support of her husband, but baby went home well after some time in hospital as he was premature.

I agree that it was too early in the case, and it should (usually) require the families support ,but we need to be careful when labelling this as grotesque when some families would beg for the baby to be saved, and for them it's a medical miracle.

None of the women involved consented to being kept alive for this. None of them will ever have an awareness of it, and none of them will suffer because of it. If it's undignified and grotesque, then that is equally the case where the hospital make the decision and someone's spouse? It's the same for the woman, not that she'd ever know.

It is however, extending the agony and grief of the family, especially where there are other children, which is why I think it should usually require their consent. The only reason I say usually is in the case of a third trimester situation whether baby can be delivered immediately and survive, but the family refuse. I'm not sure that's right, but that's fairly caveat to family consent that I can see.

The whole things is beyond fucked up.

It’s abhorrent this is happening in a country what is (was) considered a leader of the free world. This is the kind of stuff you’d expect in some third county with medieval views regarding religion where women’s rights don’t exist.

Let’s be honest here, this is due to religious beliefs and the fact new life is scared at any cost. It’s not about the rights of life in general otherwise it would be counterproductive to allow a mother to die in order to save her unborn child. So it’s not all life is sacred only those potential lives that don’t exist without the women’s body.

This is the problem when religions beliefs take precedence in society and laws that govern. If a woman wouldn’t want an abortion that’s absolutely fine and is her right. If a woman does want an abortion for any reason then that’s ok as well. Her body her choice.

I also wonder if those that think it’s perfectly fine what they are doing, would also be happy for them to use their organs or the organs of their dead family member in order to save a life?…. I bet not because that’s not been discussed in the bible…..

The baby may well be born in a permanent vegetative state itself. Once brain death happens none of the usual processes a woman's body goes through during pregnancy occur. Added to that the woman herself isn't moving, talking, breathing by herself, her heart isn't beating by itself, etc. I saw a really good post on Facebook outlining everything that isn't happening that helps the baby prepare for life outside the womb. Babies that have been born to women in comas or with locked in syndrome experience trauma from birth. Added to that i think the baby already has issues (fluid on the brain.)
For me, this goes against God and nature, and humanity, because it's inhumane.

I believe it was Nevada, the only thing I could find now was a research paper published in 2020. It's one of those things I read about years ago but can't find the original source.

It will be a tragedy, however it goes.

I’m waiting for the test case where they force a JW to accept blood to save a pregnancy.

that will be interesting.

It's as though JWs managed to forbid anyone at all ever to have a blood transfusion for any reason. (Not that I think they want to, but supposing they were the sort of religious nutters who want to kill off everyone who disagrees with their beliefs because such recusants do not deserve to live.)

The result is the same in these people’s eyes and the sort of people who think that women shouldn’t be allowed abortions will often be even more extreme because of religious ideology. They need to fuck off with any of their anti abortion bullshit. Peoples real lives matter more than religious ideology.

What law do you think has been changed

If one believes that the life of the baby begins with it’s heartbeat, as professed in this case, then knowing this foetus is growing, and may already feel pain of a life limiting abnormality is surely a cruel and unusual punishment in conflict with the 8th amendment.

It said they’d been visiting. Her partner, her child, her mother. Normally the doctors don’t just declare legally brain dead and off you fuck. You’d continue to be with them till the end. Normally this would be days instead they are all stuck in limbo.

It was a long time ago, and my eldest child (of three) is now nearly 44, so it doesn't hurt too much any longer. That was one of the early-in-the-pregnancy failures; the nasty one was the baby who died when she was six months in utero and had to be carefully removed.

That it was a long time ago doesn't stop me having strong feelings about people who ignorantly take up a "100% opposed to abortion" stance in the face of reason, though.

Insurance doesn’t really cover everything though. You can have a mix of deductibles ( excess) Co insurance (you pay a fixed proportion of costs of treatment) and Co pays ( you pay a fixed amount towards treatment).

Policies also have limits. I looked up Medicare which is a government scheme as an example and for long term hospital stays the co insurance part increases over time so initially 0 after the deductible then over 60 days you pay over 400 dollars a night, 90 days plus you pay over 800 dollars a night and then over 150 days you are responsible for all the costs.

I wonder if other insurance companies are similar and now she has gone over the 60 days she’s being billed for a proportion of her care. It’ll be a fraction of the cost but on Medicare rates that adds up 12-13 thousand this month and then double that next month and for as long as she lives.

So very sorry you had to go through this. I lost a child, but didn't have to deal with utter cunts.

An ‘iron curtain’ (you mean a lead gown, although they are not made of lead any more), would not be helpful and could actually increase dose to the foetus.

How does that work? I'm not medical (obviously) genuine question

Various of the news reports are saying that her family are having to pay the costs. Last para of this one, for example:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/family-forced-keep-brain-dead-pregnant-woman-alive-rcna207002

Wouldn’t surprise me if the insurance refused to pay though, on the basis that this “treatment” is unnecessary and futile.

they’ve probably refused to cover keeping a dead person on extended life support. Don’t blame them tbh.

She worked at the hospital I assume her job came with insurance

Do you know why the family are liable? As she was a 30 yo woman, surely her family were no longer financially responsible for her?

Sorry about the strange hiccup there; I swear I didn't try to send anything for the first post.

RhannionKPSS
Sepsis nearly killed me when my twin boy & girl both died in my womb , but I didn’t miscarry and had to have a D & C which saved my life.

You have my every sympathy.

I was similarly carrying a dead foetus (only one, but much wanted) but had not miscarried, and was called into a women's health clinic to have a D&C. Unfortunately my appointment was on a day when activist anti-abortion people had elected to demonstrate outside that clinic and I had to run the gauntlet of men spitting on me and calling me "murderer" in order to get to the clinic's door. I lost patience (I was in something of a poor state of mind even before that crap) and chose a woman abut my age, one of the baying mob, and told her, loudly, exactly what was happening inside my body.

She was sick, the rest shut up and allowed me through.

Bad enough to be carrying the death of some cherished hopes without idiots making assumptions about you.

RhannionKPSS

Because what do you tell a child?

if she were dead you’d have a funeral and be able to say goodbye. Visit the grave.

she’s in limbo. That child’s life cannot can’t say goodbye. He won’t understand fully how she can be dead but still breathing. He won’t understand the legal battle around why she isn’t at rest.

so family have told him she’s in hospital. Why would he not visit his mum in hospital?

they’ve chosen to tell him she’s sleeping. I can’t judge them for that. Even if you explain the concept of brain death how do you explain her being kept on LS for so long without giving that child hope?

Why would he be taken there? She's dead

I've been following this case a bit and I'm dumbfounded at the lack of logic and compassion that is seeping into legislation which is then able to be used in what seems the epitome of sadism.

The religious types who drive the "right to life" movements are as consistent as frigging fog. They'll hide behind God's will and wishes in a case like this, neatly overlooking that this poor woman had a life ending medical event that could be seen as "God's will" for her and her baby, but they're actually intent on over-riding that. This isn't what I "believe" as I'm not religious at all, but I've had enough "interesting" debates with the devout to know that their ideology is often devoid of any aspect of critical thinking.

The way the world is going makes me glad I'm oldish to be honest. Every heartbreaking story like this, every bit of extended batshittery that I see reported makes me think, well, hopefully not long now, because voices of reason are unwelcome and drowned out by people with enough money to promote any nuts agenda that generates digital revenue, actual human beings suffering as a result be damned it seems.

I've sat at my late DPs bedside when he was brain dead, for three days, after life support was withdrawn. Still I had friends aghast that I agreed with what was a medical decision. He wasn't in there, and his body was failing in front of our eyes. There was going to be no miracle awakening, and if there had been, he would have been quadriplegic and severely brain damaged, which he would not have wanted. So, like many others to whom I send solidarity, I know what I'm talking about in terms of the agony if this kind of scenario.

There being a "maybe" baby, which might not survive, and may be significantly disabled if it does, plus the US financial model of medical care is beyond horrific, and I am appalled for the family, and for the poor woman herself, reduced as others gave said, to the status of incubator.

And something else that occurs to me - if you rock up in a life threatening condition as a pregnant woman with awareness, how the hell does the conversation go if the law prohibits your treatment in favour of the baby at all costs? I'm aware that women can choose their baby over all else, sacrificing themselves if they choose, and fair play to them. But if said woman has other children, or just wants to live, she's effectively being told she is less important than the foetus, and will just have to suck it up in these scenarios. It's inhumane and barbaric on every level.