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Original poster

How does learning to read really work ? When does the c - a - t sounding out stop ?

55 replies

fonic · 17/05/2025 07:51

Hello very smart ladies of Mumsnet. I’m curious about the learning to read process. My DD is in reception.

She has gone from learning single letter sounds M A etc, to blending the sounds C - A - T. Etc. all fine.

now she’s moving through the RWI programme with the different books. She recognises some words really well- especially the red words of course- like AND and THE. Here she sees it and doesn’t need to sound it out, she just knows it by sight reading.

but lots of other words, she still needs to sound out. I see her fluency getting better, but it’s quite a slow process.

how does this work ? Does it just go on like this for ages ?

she seems to be moving through the book bands and the sentences are getting longer, but I do wonder how she’s actually processing as I can’t always tell that it’s much better. She’s on the pink books now, if that helps. Which should mean she’s doing alright, but I just can’t always see it when she reads.

it’s probably not helped by the fact that she often doesn’t want to do her reading practice and isn’t in the mood for it, so she doesn’t really try.

OP posts:
Tagyoureit · 17/05/2025 08:56

fonic · 17/05/2025 08:11

Yeah she’s been learning Fred in your head for ages, she just doesn’t always do it. I guess I should remind her every time. But I also don’t want to discourage her. She gets easily put off if I get too involved..

Then I'd back off and be supportive and cheerful. Don't put her off reading because you think she isn't where she should be. That's a you problem.

TheSandgroper · 17/05/2025 08:56

I found at this point dd could only learn a certain amount and then she stopped. But, at some point, her brain would grow another connection and she would fly again. Then stop. Brains grow in bunny hops, I found. Also, while one skill plateaued, another skill was flying. DD’s handwriting and swimming freestyle came together the same week; it was blatantly obvious her brain had made a connection. (I still remember sitting poolside and four swimming teachers seeing and pointing at her and looking to me with grins on their faces).

So, continue what she has learnt but don’t get cross, don’t push reward charts, don’t ever give her reason to think she can’t please you. Just take time each day to keep up. And then read out loud with her and then read out loud to her from a “big” book.

thirdistheonewiththehairychest · 17/05/2025 08:53

Teachers don't refer to 'sounding out' any more but instead they call it 'blending' which allows the transition that you're talking about.

The traditional sounding out method of saying 'cuh - a - tuh' for cat doesn't help the children to blend. Instead, children are now taught to say the sounds without the 'uh' sound at the end of them. When you make a 'c' sound, there should be no vocal sound to it at all, only the clicking sound that the back of your tongue makes when it leaves the roof of your mouth. And the same is the case with 't' - it is not 'tuh', just the clicking sound the front of your tongue makes when it leaves your teeth.

When children say the sounds correctly like this, they can blend the sounds together and, if they say the sounds quickly enough they are basically saying the word itself.

Itcantbetrue · 17/05/2025 08:50

Op she's doing fine and teachers are telling you that

She's also pickling up books and showing an interest which is brilliant

She's looking bored when your trying stragety with her.

You have to be extremely careful with schools and reading not to the ow the baby out with the bath water.

Don't force her.
I say that as a parent who ended up having to lie about the "school" reading books dd had read in her reader because she was on novels and forcing her to read boring book levels was killing her flow

She had and has an extremely advanced reading age and at 18 has read most of the classics across World literature

No 2 had a different journey but is getting extremely high marks in English.

With both I had to make sure our awful reading system didn't kill the golden goose : a love of stories and reading

Original poster
fonic · 17/05/2025 08:44

Yellowcar2 · 17/05/2025 08:40

To start with pink at this point in reception is exceeding expectations. For pink book and orange that comes next it is very normal to sound out. From yellow we would expect more emphasis on fred in your head. To move from yellow to blue children need to be reading about 60-70 words per minute so start to get quite fluent. Once pupils finish RWI they should be reading 80-90+ words per minute.
In terms of expected expectations pupils should be assessed as green by end of reception, blue by end of year one and off program by end of year two.
My only advice is she should be reading daily and will only build fluency if she rereads books.

Thanks for that breakdown. Very interesting.

how can I encourage Fred in your head, without breaking her flow / confidence ? They’ve been saying Fred in your head since the end of autumn term/ beginning of spring term when she went to green books. But anytime I sit down and remind her, she’ll just lose interest.

I really want to introduce daily consistency over the summer holidays as I understand that she’ll lose a lot of what she’s learnt.

I do use reward charts etc but it only works so much on her.

OP posts:
Yellowcar2 · 17/05/2025 08:40

To start with pink at this point in reception is exceeding expectations. For pink book and orange that comes next it is very normal to sound out. From yellow we would expect more emphasis on fred in your head. To move from yellow to blue children need to be reading about 60-70 words per minute so start to get quite fluent. Once pupils finish RWI they should be reading 80-90+ words per minute.
In terms of expected expectations pupils should be assessed as green by end of reception, blue by end of year one and off program by end of year two.
My only advice is she should be reading daily and will only build fluency if she rereads books.

Original poster
fonic · 17/05/2025 08:36

I didn’t start school until I was 6, almost 7 though- Europe.

OP posts:
Original poster
fonic · 17/05/2025 08:35

Itcantbetrue · 17/05/2025 08:32

Op when you read to her point at the words as you go. This is a technique and some people actually learn to read by this method.

How did you learn?

I think that’s how I learnt. Just sight reading and repetition. I think that’s how it used to be, right ?

I remember sounding out each letter of the words as well though. I think it’s a natural stage of reading.

I still sound out medical terms that I can’t sight read.

OP posts:
Itcantbetrue · 17/05/2025 08:32

Op when you read to her point at the words as you go. This is a technique and some people actually learn to read by this method.

How did you learn?

Original poster
fonic · 17/05/2025 08:28

Yeah of course we read bed time stories.

OP posts:
OrsolaRosso · 17/05/2025 08:28

Do you read bedtime stories to her, as a totally separate activity?
I did this with mine, and always pointed to the words as I read. I'm sure that this reinforced all the formal learning to read stuff.

nutbrownhare15 · 17/05/2025 08:26

It is wearing but they are making progress as long as they keep practicing. The school changed the phonics scheme for my youngest which definitely helped. Both my kids became fluent towards the middle - end of year 1.

Original poster
fonic · 17/05/2025 08:24

Itcantbetrue · 17/05/2025 08:21

If she's picking u up books on her own then leave her op don't push anything else at the moment
Some people do learn to read by a variety of ways which can't be considered by school because they are shackled into the phonics tests so they have to push phonics.
A curiosity for books and reading is far more healthy and powerful.
I've never pushed reading but gone with each child's flow (one got phonics but would have got anything and the other found phonics to be a barrier to reading) and supported them how they needed.

I’m really trying not to push her force her to read when she doesn’t want to.

that’s why we don’t do it that often. I figure she’s only 5 and her teachers aren’t saying she’s behind, quite the opposite actually. She’s doing ok but I’m finding it so slow and as I don’t know how it works / how fast it should work, I am just curious about the process.

OP posts:
BlueEyedBogWitch · 17/05/2025 08:24

It’s a developmental stage that usually kicks in around 6.

Sortumn · 17/05/2025 08:23

One of my kids enjoyed the Songbird readers. She had the whole set and we didn't sort them by difficulty level, just read whichever she wanted to read.

There are lots of ideas for reading in games for learning. We used some of the little games in that. We also liked zingo (bingo with sight words) and rhyme robber (orchard toys)

Itcantbetrue · 17/05/2025 08:21

If she's picking u up books on her own then leave her op don't push anything else at the moment
Some people do learn to read by a variety of ways which can't be considered by school because they are shackled into the phonics tests so they have to push phonics.
A curiosity for books and reading is far more healthy and powerful.
I've never pushed reading but gone with each child's flow (one got phonics but would have got anything and the other found phonics to be a barrier to reading) and supported them how they needed.

Original poster
fonic · 17/05/2025 08:20

Daisydad · 17/05/2025 08:19

Lots of word play games will help so that she internally manipulates sounds. Think ‘cat beginning with ‘p’(pat), hot beginning with ‘t’ (tot), then change ending sounds.She can identify and say the sounds which is a great start. The next step is to internally put the sounds together, Fred in her head as per RWI.

This is confusing - she’d been able to blend sounds for ages..

OP posts:
Daisydad · 17/05/2025 08:19

Lots of word play games will help so that she internally manipulates sounds. Think ‘cat beginning with ‘p’(pat), hot beginning with ‘t’ (tot), then change ending sounds.She can identify and say the sounds which is a great start. The next step is to internally put the sounds together, Fred in her head as per RWI.

summerstormy · 17/05/2025 08:18

fonic · 17/05/2025 07:51

Hello very smart ladies of Mumsnet. I’m curious about the learning to read process. My DD is in reception.

She has gone from learning single letter sounds M A etc, to blending the sounds C - A - T. Etc. all fine.

now she’s moving through the RWI programme with the different books. She recognises some words really well- especially the red words of course- like AND and THE. Here she sees it and doesn’t need to sound it out, she just knows it by sight reading.

but lots of other words, she still needs to sound out. I see her fluency getting better, but it’s quite a slow process.

how does this work ? Does it just go on like this for ages ?

she seems to be moving through the book bands and the sentences are getting longer, but I do wonder how she’s actually processing as I can’t always tell that it’s much better. She’s on the pink books now, if that helps. Which should mean she’s doing alright, but I just can’t always see it when she reads.

it’s probably not helped by the fact that she often doesn’t want to do her reading practice and isn’t in the mood for it, so she doesn’t really try.

I feel your pain. My eldest just didn’t get phonics. Could do all the letters. But c a t spells cat - didn’t get it. Honestly it drove me insane.

It was 16 years ago but I feel it like yesterday. I spoke to a lot of headteachers, phonics experts etc and home educators. I was recommended a programme of 20 lessons / no pictures in the book, kind of cartoons but not - just words really and it blends both phonics and sight. So I brought it. 6 months later she was a fluent reader doing 10 minutes a day with me and she loved it. I also used it to teach the next one - as they were partly deaf I was a bit worried it might be more of a challenge but they were the same 6 months fluent. I thank the person that recommended it - every time I think of it. Eldest had a reading age of 18 by Year 7. We also followed the same series of books for Maths as I was so impressed by the Reading one. Eldest did gcse maths in year 9 and youngest in year 8. A friend’s child was struggling with maths and I lent her the books and within about 6 months she was on book 3 and doing gcse stuff and ‘got it’. I will message you the book - if I still had a copy I would send you one.

Sometimeswinning · 17/05/2025 08:18

Sorry, I was going to suggest the dandelion readers books. I use them for older children who didn’t get the results from phonics and work now on memory reading.

Sometimeswinning · 17/05/2025 08:16

fonic · 17/05/2025 08:12

She never wants to read the words at the beginning. It’s so frustrating. She has to do it her way, otherwise she just won’t do it at all. She just doesn’t enjoy it.

Show quote history

Some children don’t like phonics and that’s fine. I would do as suggested above look for other books to read to her and with her. Its all
very repetitive and boring if you don’t enjoy it.

Original poster
fonic · 17/05/2025 08:16

I would say she generally has really enjoyed the phonics stage with the cards and single letter sounds and also the more complex sounds. Just getting her so sit down and want to do her reading is tough. We read once a week maybe. Sometimes twice. Sometimes not at all.

on the positive side, recently she’s just been picking up and reading the books by herself a couple of times, without me asking her to do it. Perhaps we are on the cusp of something !

OP posts:
Adver · 17/05/2025 08:15

Just be patient because it really does work. By this stage in Y2, she will most likely be a fairly fluent reader. The progress they make over Y1 and Y2 is enormous. Mine was fairly reluctant to read in Reception but is much more willing now and can read when tired etc - it just isn't nearly as much effort anymore so she's much happier to do it.

Itcantbetrue · 17/05/2025 08:14

Op she may click she's still very young but she also there is a chance she doesn't like phonics

If she gets words by site reading maybe try that?

Original poster
fonic · 17/05/2025 08:12

Joanne200019 · 17/05/2025 08:10

I teach RWI, pink is good for this point in reception. Reading the same book several times helps with fluency so reading at home is really important. Try getting her to “Fred in your head” - think the sounds then say the word rather than saying each sound. Also make sure you read the story words inside the cover before reading the book so the trickier words are not completely new to her. It is a slow process but it sounds like she’s doing well!

She never wants to read the words at the beginning. It’s so frustrating. She has to do it her way, otherwise she just won’t do it at all. She just doesn’t enjoy it.

OP posts: