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SATS cheating - by the Head!

561 replies

Dilemmaramma · 16/05/2025 21:16

In my DC’s final SATS exam yesterday, the headteacher was overseeing and they picked up DC’s paper, DURING the exam, flicked through it, then rubbed out one of the answers and told DC to try again. They also pointed out another wrong answer and indicated DC should re-do that question.

This is clear cut cheating, right?

YABU - don’t report it, the whole year group could get their SATS voided and they’ll be devastated
YANBU - this is appalling and the Head needs to be investigated

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Mischance · 18/05/2025 08:20

The example set to the children is that the head knows it is all nonsense and that they all need to chill.

TubeScreamer · 18/05/2025 08:16

hopsalong · 18/05/2025 07:51

It doesn’t matter whether SATS are nonsense, whether they ruin the last few months of pupils’ primary-school life, or how good the head’s motivations are! What is wrong with you lot?

Of course you must report it. It’s a flagrant breaking of the rules and a bloody awful example to set to children of how to behave. It also denigrates the seriousness of the exam, which is insulting to pupils, the class teacher, and parents. Finally, if the head is willing to do something like this openly, how do you think they’re operating when no one is watching?

Well said

Orangesinthebag · 18/05/2025 08:14

Mischance · 18/05/2025 08:01

I think it does matter that SATs are nonsense in this scenario.
I understand the principle about honesty, but there needs to be a sense of proportion here. A less than ideal action in relation to a piece of nonsense us different from one in relation to something of importance.
I think the OP should just let this go.

I agree, I can't see what it will actually achieve.
It will be the child's word against the Head's.

It will be horrible for them, the TA who was there, the OP etc and probably the Head will get away with it.
I'm not saying it's right, of course it isn't, but I can't see that reporting it is going to have a huge impact on anything.

The OP can obviously talk to their child about it but I think just let it go.
Tbh, I am still doubtful this particular incident actually happened - although cheating on SATS obviously does.

Mischance · 18/05/2025 08:01

hopsalong · 18/05/2025 07:51

It doesn’t matter whether SATS are nonsense, whether they ruin the last few months of pupils’ primary-school life, or how good the head’s motivations are! What is wrong with you lot?

Of course you must report it. It’s a flagrant breaking of the rules and a bloody awful example to set to children of how to behave. It also denigrates the seriousness of the exam, which is insulting to pupils, the class teacher, and parents. Finally, if the head is willing to do something like this openly, how do you think they’re operating when no one is watching?

I think it does matter that SATs are nonsense in this scenario.
I understand the principle about honesty, but there needs to be a sense of proportion here. A less than ideal action in relation to a piece of nonsense us different from one in relation to something of importance.
I think the OP should just let this go.

hopsalong · 18/05/2025 07:51

It doesn’t matter whether SATS are nonsense, whether they ruin the last few months of pupils’ primary-school life, or how good the head’s motivations are! What is wrong with you lot?

Of course you must report it. It’s a flagrant breaking of the rules and a bloody awful example to set to children of how to behave. It also denigrates the seriousness of the exam, which is insulting to pupils, the class teacher, and parents. Finally, if the head is willing to do something like this openly, how do you think they’re operating when no one is watching?

Strictly1 · 18/05/2025 07:21

IButtleSir · 18/05/2025 07:10

In that case, you really ought to know the difference between the recommendations and the rules of SATs administration! As well as understanding the difficulties of finding enough willing, available, DBS-checked adults to have more than one person per room in a school with 96 Year 6 children and a fairly high proportion of children with SEN, which necessitates using a large number of rooms.

I do. I also know that not all children have to do the SATs at the same time so would construct a timetable where more staff could be available.

I would never put my staff in a position where they alone were accountable without the support of another member of staff. If a child was taken ill/upset extra you have no give. We are all different, but no, for me it is a must.

Mischance · 18/05/2025 07:14

Teateaandmoretea · 18/05/2025 06:07

It’s completely different. SATs are in primary schools, when the emphasis should be about fostering love for learning not practising the same boring stuff day in day out,

The difference is that public exams might actually make a difference to a young person's life, while SATs are a monumental piece of nonsense that blights pupils' last months at school if they are in a primary that makes a song and dance about it.
Teachers do not need these tests to tell them their pupils' strengths and weaknesses; secondaries do not need them to establish how best to help each pupil ... they do their own informal assessments.
It is all complete nonsense.

IButtleSir · 18/05/2025 07:10

Strictly1 · 17/05/2025 21:26

Yes. I am in charge and completed the HT declaration on Friday so my opinion I think has some value. Thank you!

In that case, you really ought to know the difference between the recommendations and the rules of SATs administration! As well as understanding the difficulties of finding enough willing, available, DBS-checked adults to have more than one person per room in a school with 96 Year 6 children and a fairly high proportion of children with SEN, which necessitates using a large number of rooms.

Teateaandmoretea · 18/05/2025 06:07

Jessie3 · 18/05/2025 00:19

This stuff about intensive practice annoys me as well. No one accuses secondary teachers of hot housing for GCSEs when they are running endless revision sessions and I applauded my son’s school when they did!

My dh is an A level teacher and similarly moans about hot housing. Meh.

It’s completely different. SATs are in primary schools, when the emphasis should be about fostering love for learning not practising the same boring stuff day in day out,

Jessie3 · 18/05/2025 00:19

This stuff about intensive practice annoys me as well. No one accuses secondary teachers of hot housing for GCSEs when they are running endless revision sessions and I applauded my son’s school when they did!

My dh is an A level teacher and similarly moans about hot housing. Meh.

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 17/05/2025 23:31

SATS are all nonsense. DDs secondary school
tested them when they got there to work out which set they should be in. I really couldn’t get wound up by any of this.

sakuraspring · 17/05/2025 22:59

NeverDropYourMooncup · 17/05/2025 22:54

No, they don't. I've seen thousands of SATs results over the years and compared them to the zero stakes CAT4 data - they broadly match to within 5 points/map over to comparable standards for the non quantified or if you look at the raw data on GIAP.

I can see where there might have been more intensive practice in some schools, I can see where an entire cohort probably had an awful time with supply staff all year, I can see where a school has been proactive in evidencing SEND need for access arrangements - and I can see at a glance where it is literally impossible for those levels to have been reached, as their raw ability scores are right at the bottom but their primary has somehow got them all to 105-109 and the firm 100 averages apparently all got 111+. It'll be one or two schools out of 30.

If it's possible to get this from the data then when aren't there more interventions? Lack of resources?

Because my children's cheating head has had a "stratospheric" career and is known for her ability to "radically improve" sats results in each school she goes to, yet she's clearly got away with it so far

neverbeenskiing · 17/05/2025 22:55

sakuraspring · 17/05/2025 22:39

I know that really, I am just shocked by the responses on here.

How do you feel knowing your results will be compared to those of schools where cheating does happen?

Pissed off, obviously. Hence my advocating for cheating to be reported in previous posts.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 17/05/2025 22:54

AngelinaFibres · 17/05/2025 19:00

ALL schools cheat on Sat's. ALL OF THEM.

No, they don't. I've seen thousands of SATs results over the years and compared them to the zero stakes CAT4 data - they broadly match to within 5 points/map over to comparable standards for the non quantified or if you look at the raw data on GIAP.

I can see where there might have been more intensive practice in some schools, I can see where an entire cohort probably had an awful time with supply staff all year, I can see where a school has been proactive in evidencing SEND need for access arrangements - and I can see at a glance where it is literally impossible for those levels to have been reached, as their raw ability scores are right at the bottom but their primary has somehow got them all to 105-109 and the firm 100 averages apparently all got 111+. It'll be one or two schools out of 30.

sakuraspring · 17/05/2025 22:43

Jessie3 · 17/05/2025 22:41

Really pissed off!

This is what is motivating me to report the cheating to the Sats line and also to the governors.
It's not fair on honest schools

Jessie3 · 17/05/2025 22:41

Really pissed off!

sakuraspring · 17/05/2025 22:39

neverbeenskiing · 17/05/2025 22:33

One thread on Mumsnet isn't evidence that "most" schools cheat on SAT's. I have no doubt that some schools do, but the poster claiming it happens in all schools is talking rubbish. It certainly doesn't happen in my school, we follow the rules and recommendations to the letter and I doubt very much we're the only ones.

I know that really, I am just shocked by the responses on here.

How do you feel knowing your results will be compared to those of schools where cheating does happen?

Grapewrath · 17/05/2025 22:36

I work in a school sometimes-they never cheat during SATS and take it very seriously
Personally I wouldn’t report it though, it’s SATs and really not that deep or important. Who gives a shit really

neverbeenskiing · 17/05/2025 22:33

sakuraspring · 17/05/2025 19:04

Really?

I mean it sounds like most do cheat judging by the shocking ratio of people defending this behaviour to those criticising it.

Do none of these teachers stop and think about what kind of message is being sent to the children?

What awful role models

One thread on Mumsnet isn't evidence that "most" schools cheat on SAT's. I have no doubt that some schools do, but the poster claiming it happens in all schools is talking rubbish. It certainly doesn't happen in my school, we follow the rules and recommendations to the letter and I doubt very much we're the only ones.

noworklifebalance · 17/05/2025 22:32

472027474hg683 · 17/05/2025 18:00

Writing as a headteacher of a primary school. For clarity, by raising it, you are opening the door on it becoming a significant issue. You should report to the STA or the chair of governors as your complaint is about the headteacher. Don’t send an email to the head.

Ultimately, the results of the cohort and the outcomes for the headteacher are not your responsibility- both lie with the headteacher. If the situation happened as your child has reported, you are not ruining their career, the headteacher has made that decision for themselves. I wouldn’t worry about the implication on secondary school sets or GCSE’s- I don’t think SATs hold that much weight for individuals. Secondary schools generally do their own testing for this metrics. We have children in secondary schools now with no SATs outcomes because of covid and that won’t have impacted on theirs sets or predicted grades.

Obviously, I am pro headteachers and think schools and teachers are on the receiving end of vitriol all the time. But, I say with certainty, I think you are right to raise this - the headteacher is a key pillar of the school community and should be modelling integrity and moral clarity as part of their leadership. Cheating does neither of those things.

I think the majority of teachers have integrity and are great roles models like this poster.

Jessie3 · 17/05/2025 22:18

AngelinaFibres · 17/05/2025 19:00

ALL schools cheat on Sat's. ALL OF THEM.

I don’t, and have never seen anyone do so in 31 years.

Jessie3 · 17/05/2025 22:17

IButtleSir · 17/05/2025 16:47

Why have you included a screenshot of something which proves me right and you wrong?! I already knew what it said in the document! Hence why I was correct!

And it's really not 'ludicrous quibbling' to point out that there is a difference in meaning between the word 'recommendation' and the word 'rule' when it is entirely relevant in the context.

All I can say is, all four of the Heads I have worked for (most of them sane...) have ignored the recommendation in question, because we cannot lay our hands on enough adults to do this. This SATs week just gone, we used 12 adults (plus the Deputy Head who did random 'drop-ins' on each room throughout the duration of each test), and three of them were unpaid volunteers. There is just no way we could have got hold of another 12 adults.

To show the rest of the posters petty you were being over the wording. Job done!

Joyunlimited · 17/05/2025 21:27

Snackathon · 17/05/2025 21:24

Sure.

What’s the MN phrase? “When someone shows you who they are”.

Keep posting and let everyone have zero confidence in any level of independent governance of teachers, who aren’t always that popular.

No interest in engaging with you further.

No interest in engaging with you further.

That’s lucky!

Strictly1 · 17/05/2025 21:26

IButtleSir · 17/05/2025 21:22

Okay, but are you actually in charge of administering the KS2 SATs at a primary/junior school? Because if not, your opinion is irrelevant.

Yes. I am in charge and completed the HT declaration on Friday so my opinion I think has some value. Thank you!

Snackathon · 17/05/2025 21:24

Joyunlimited · 17/05/2025 21:20

Doubt it. I have sorted out a GB that was previously failing, got praised by Ofsted, am pretty popular, and no-one else wants to do it.

Sure.

What’s the MN phrase? “When someone shows you who they are”.

Keep posting and let everyone have zero confidence in any level of independent governance of teachers, who aren’t always that popular.

No interest in engaging with you further.