8 yo DS behaviour

I have a relative like this and he turned out to be neurodiverse. Like your son, he grew up in a happy, loving home full of activities etc so it was confusing why he was like this as his sibling isn'tat all. His father didn't handle it well and told him off a lot for his behaviour which I think made him act up more. The parents are seeking extra support but the diagnosis helped the parents handle his behaviour better.

Maybe try something like affirmations each morning ie “today is a good day”. Sounds silly and I’ve never needed it but others swear by it as adults.

How often is he grumpy first thing in the morning? My son is sometimes grumpy and went through a bad stage of if - he sweated a lot in the night and I reckon woke up feeling a bit drained. I used to leave a couple of plainish biscuits (rich tea) in a tub by his bed for him to eat before he even got up, just to give that little sugar boost. And I used to really encourage him to drink water first thing.

We found stripping right back really helped.
I know people say no screen time and be out al the time doing activities and outdoor stufd, but for some kids, my youngest for example it's too much.
Have you tried just having a super chill couple of weeks where it is just school, home and maybe one sport once a week. Lots of tv time. Shift bedtime half hour earlier and also having some special times in the week where it is just you and him, or just him and dad together doing something super quiet and non energetic like a puzzle or lego.
My eldest was an out everywhere every day kidz then i had my grumpy younger one and hes happier when he has not much to do other than school.

Start talking …
ask at pick up

“ I notice your face looks unhappy - tell me about it”

”I hear you sounding negative about XYZ, tell me about it”

”wow, you sound grumpy - what’s happened”

either he starts talking
or
there is nothing

if there is nothing … ok to say to him, if you are happy or just feeling neutral - great, but do you realise you look/sound angry/unhappy? That sort of behavior can drive people away … do you want that? Etc

This sounds really tough. He may just be more of a negative character and it's trying to work with that that can be so challenging.
We've had issues with our slightly younger son and am finding Kate Silverstone's book there's still no such thing as naughty really helpful.

I don't think having lots of conversations about why he's done this or that is really constructive. Essentially it's going to make him feel bad about himself and he's probably already feeling that.

I would make a concerted effort to ignore the negative comments and whining and to be breezy and cheerful, even if you aren't feeling it - fake it till you make it! Accept that your boy is just a bit of an Eeyore, glass half full type of person. Encourage his participation in all the farming activities he loves and lavish love and praise on him when he displays desirable behaviour. Essentially ignore the bad as much as you can and praise the good!

At age 8 he could really do with more input from dad - spending time with his dad doing activities they both enjoy will create a strong bond and a role model that he really needs. Is it possible that he feels resentful about his 'much easier' little sister and feels she gets more praise and positive attention?

I agree. Many ND are co occuring conditions so he could have dyslexia and another ND.

Make an appointment with the SENCO and class teacher and share you concerns. Ask if there is anyone they can refer him for support eg school nurse.

He sounds unhappy. You’ve compared him a few times to your DD which makes me think this might be the root of it, if you are always saying how grumpy and whiny he is compared to his lovely happy sister then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Shower him with love, praise him, admire his good qualities, let him hear you talk positively about him to others. Don’t engage with the whining, don’t ask him why he’s doing it, just try to ignore it and praise the good stuff instead.

I also wonder if he's neurodivergent as hols take all the school stress/overwhelm away

I would meet with the SENCO. I think he needs a dyslexia assessment.

I have to say, there are a lot of red flags for autism with demand avoidance here (‘PDA’ if you will, but PDA is over diagnosed a lot, lots of high functioning autistic children are demand avoidant without being full blown PDA). I’d have a read about it. I’m seeing avoidance, sensory preferences, anxiety, equalising behaviour and communication issues, which can all be relevant.

It would get anyone down eventually so please don't beat yourself up! Negativity, wherever it comes from, saps your energy and wears you down. Is there a child-friendly version of grey rock? I always find it helpful with the in-laws who are prone to complaining about anything and everything. I don't actually have DC so have no advice really but a friend swears by the chimp book mentioned earlier.

It might be time to talk to a GP and/or a psychologist. I took my kids to see a psychologist when they were younger. There is no harm in trying. The psychologist was just like a lovely friendly person talking to them and playing games with them, much like when I took one to a speech therapist. They might be able to help your DS develop coping mechanisms for his feelings.

What's he like during the holidays?

Sounds quite a bit like my 10 yo DSS. He has had other trauma and therapy and can communicate some of his issues, but the negative, argumentative side that seems to come from nothing is the same. Sometimes it’s because he’s bottling something but other times it’s like he can’t help himself and he seems to almost get enjoyment out of it. Is he otherwise thrill seeking? DSS highly likely has ADHD.

Hi, no tips but my 7yo DD is very similar. Glass half full all the time. It’s very wearing. I’m now trying not to perk her up but to not let it get me down.

Hitting his sister is poor tho - a line is crossed there.

I would stop talking to him about it. Realistically an eight year old boy is unlikely to have much agency over his behaviour and it sets him up for failure and disapproval.

I know it’s really hard with negative kids, but I would try really hard to ignore the bad and give positive attention to the good. So when he’s whining you pretend not to notice. When he hits, you implement the consequence with no drama. When he does something positive, you notice. Eg “thank you for helping your sister”; “I loved your tricks on your bike”; “It was great for me that you helped with dinner”.

Get his dad to set aside a small amount of time every day for positive 1:1 activity together. Even just 10 minutes. He chooses what they do (a game or drawing together or whatever).

Finally, accept him for what he is and work out what helps in the moment. Don’t exhaust yourself trying to pep him up, but help him to identify how he is feeling and get into a routine of what to do when he feels sad or cross or whatever. With my DD I might identify the feeling for her (“you seem to be a bit down”) and then remind of things we have identified that help (“shall we have a cuddle and then you could do some Lego?”)

Have you tried love bombing him! Like squeezing the grumps out and the love in (big bear hug), kisses til he giggles, tickles and that sort of thing. One of my DC needed that physical contact and although older now he still has grumpy spells and I realise we've not had that close contact for a while so I'll sneak if for an unsuspecting cuddle and you can actually feel them relax

And has he been assessed for dyslexia, if reading is an issue?

I’m probably going to get my arse handed to me. But a child this unhappy, who has been this way since a baby, with no obvious physical or social cause…I would consider neurodiversity. Did he meet milestones on time? Crawling and talking etc? Any sensory issues that you’ve spotted - you’ve said eating and getting dressed are a battle, could these be sensory things?