To think life is a lot easier & more relaxed if there’s one Sahp?

This is an incredibly small minded view. I have had a highly successful career, making my way up to Chief People Officer of a group of financial services businesses. After having my baby last February, I am now a SAHP and I will be until she goes to school. It is more relaxed and very stress free for me to look after the baby and house and be fully present, in comparison to my going to London constantly and working 12 hour days. The choice I have made does come with consequences like lost earnings of course, but I am very lucky that my husband can support us during this time as we have paired back our lifestyle to a huge degree. Both of us are very happy with this decision. This does not make me “like a child”. Get your head out of your behind.

Quite. But in this case it works because him prividing financially and not having to take anyoneinto account if he wants to do something (which he prefers) makes it possible for me to focus on my children which I prefer. And I do get me time during the day while they are in school so he gets his time off in the evenings/week-ends.

@footpathI know I can't afford to go back to work. Even with the funded nursery hours I would have to pay a top up, and a childminder for pick ups and drop offs, and then the commute costs for myself. We did the maths and it just wasn't worth it at all.

I spoke with my friend about this and I will never forget her response. She said "you are either time rich and cash poor, or cash rich and time poor". I have never agreed with a statement more.

I think you are completely right to kick back against the insinuation that being a SAHP is living like a child. Horrendously patronising and ignores the fact that adults can be supported by one another - or in my own view by the state - at various points in their life without it diminishing their status as adults deserving of full respect.

I don't agree with your very negative view of paid work. Not everyone's experience of work is the way you describe. Since leaving uni I have always worked for either a school or in the NHS and I believe that my colleagues and I have made a valuable difference to other people's lives every single working day. Maybe that a pompous of me but I stand by it. Other people might not work in the same sort of sector but can still experience their work as having an intrinsic value to themselves or other people. Depending on the job, work can also be intellectually interesting and I also don'tcthink there is anything pathetic about deriving a sense of purpose and achievement from the challenges of work - I know that some people can derive this just as well from family life or from hobbies but not everyone is the same (something attested to by people's very different experiences with retirement - some bloody love it and some hate the loss of work).

Another element of work worth mentioning is the social side. Again this depends on the job of course, but personally I've always loved working - even when a teen in low paid roles working in shops or doing cleaning - because I loved stepping into a new environment and meeting new people. Ideally people would get friendship, community and fun outside of work but for people like me who are a bit socially awkward, work has been a godsend. The hardest part of MAT leave for me was feeling isolated and not having the chance to escape my home life by going to work where I could play a different 'role' - express another part of myself.

Some people will experience work as pretty miserable, either because of the type of job they're in or because their own personality and interests would enable them to thrive if they had more time to dedicate to their non-working life / family. Everyone is different.

By the way, I'm not sure that disparaging work is an effective anti-capitalist position. The thing about 'from each according to his ability; to each according to his need' is that those with the ability to work need to actually pull their weight to make the whole thing operate effectively (I do appreciate that being a SAHM should be counted as work too... but so should paid work!).

This is stupid capitalism-ass-kissing bullshit. Oh no, earnings losses - so what, if the family are earning enough? What do you need, a gold plated toilet?

This is naive and spoilt dog-whistling of the worst kind.

No one, outside of Trump's entourage, works for a "gold plated toilet" as I'm sure you know. I've had to work throughout my child's childhood because until about two years ago I was a single parent. If I hadn't worked my child would either have starved or we'd have lived on benefits. "Earnings losses" isn't some trivial thing to sneer at: it's do or die for many people.

We all have to work with the system we have. Unless you are independently wealthy, ultimately you either get your money from your employer or your husband. We all make a choice somewhere along that spectrum.

Wanting a better work/life balance is completely understandable and I can totally understand why having a spouse at home is attractive. If people can make it work without creating a very asymmetrical situation then all power to them.

But painting working mums as ruthless capitalist bastards who only work to buy shoes and handbags is such an insulting and stupid argument, but so prevalent on here. There's nothing "capitalist" about wanting some financial autonomy, about wanting to improve your household income and show your children that they can also be financially independent.

Of course it makes home life much smoother. I worked term time from when my youngest started pre-school until he was 14. It was so easy. I was home just as the children arrived home, i could talk to them about their day, was available to help with homework or cheer them up if they had had a rubbish day. We could eat a made from scratch meal at a reasonable time and the bed time routine was not rushed. I could actually have evenings to myself. Husband at the time just slotted in depending on his shifts working days/nights or away for months on end.
We had a joint account that my pension was paid from, this started the month i found out i was pregnant with the first child. My wage when i started working again went into my own account and i used it as i saw fit, mostly to build my escape fund.
My children are in their 30s and i have retired but i can honestly say i am so grateful i had that time with them. I don't sit here wishing i had spent more time at work.

I’m sure it would be fantastic, but many couples are obviously unable to afford this.

DH was made redundant mid 2020 and was at home for about 6 months.

Because we had the redundancy money (he'd been in the job decades) we suffered no loss of income, and he no longer had the commuting costs. He was available to look after DD all that dreadful summer when everything was shut. He kept the house clean and tidy and cooked the dinners. It was great coming home from work (went back into the office on wellbeing grounds) and not having to pick up the housework and laundry and cooking.

If only we could have afforded it we both agreed we'd have carried that on.

I wonder would all the SAHMs be so quick to stay at home if their husbands did not earn good money.

plenty of SAHMs can't afford to work

No, I don't think it's easier, more relaxed or a better model for one adult in a relationship to become the servant. You're both adults and should both be splitting the chores. You could also rearrange your time so that there isn't a big build up of things to do on a weekend - clean as you go throughout the week, so there isn't actually a lot to do on one specific day; do the clothes wash and some cleaning on a Friday night; wash the sheets and towels on a Sat/Sun morning, that's it. What on earth are you doing that's taking your whole weekend? Most people food shop via home delivery, which just involves putting things away. If you actually go the the supermarket, do it after work.

I think if there was more flexibility in all jobs (within reason i get it wouldnt work for all jobs) and more childcare available particularly for SEN then more families could have a balance and find what's right for them.

If you're options are minimum wage jobs which typically aren't flexible at all often set non family friendly shifts. If you also don't have access to childcare if it costs way more than you earn/if you need specialist childcare. Then it makes no sense to try and work full time.

Our school offers no wraparound care or holiday care. The only holiday clubs around do sports which none of mine like and its times like 9 till 1 and doesn't run the whole 6 weeks either.I'd also need sen provision which doesn't exist where I am or you have to hire a specialist nanny which would be very expensive.

I know people who have tried working part time in a school (TA/Office) thinking that's the answer but then still struggled for childcare for the inset days or hours they have to be in earlier or later than the school day.

Not everyone has childcare or grandparents/family that help so for lots working just doesn't make sense. I think at the core that's what we all want the choice to choose for our family what works without loosing out immeasurably on other aspects of our life.

I’m not sure I get your point here. Most are stay at home parents as they can afford it. If they couldn’t they wouldn’t go back to working outside the home. Also a lot of “big high paying jobs” relay on someone keeping things going at home.

It works for my DH and me. His job is irregular and takes him away 2 nights a week. He also likes to sleep until 8:40 which he can because I'm a natural early waker and tend to our two DS who are now in secondary so it's much easier than it used to be. He knows he can always go out in the evening whenever he wants to see a friend/football game or cinema because I'm home. One DS is autistic and can't be left alone. Personally I prefer working out and reading as hobbies while he's the social butterfly so it works for us. If I were to work we would divorce because he wouldn't do his part of house chores and has never even looked at our DS homework. I have put lot of effort in helping DS1 advance because he's got a learning disability and even home schooled him for 2 years when he was too anxious to go to school. My number one is my children's wellbeing and I'm happy to be able to concentrate on that while DH works.

Is this actually real?

DH is hybrid which also helps

It depends, one partner at home until dc are 18 then yes probably easier? But they may be dissatisfied & financial implications.

I work p/t & have slowly build up to 4 days & that works well for us.

The ideal solution for me would be working 4 days in the week and one weekend day.

I could’ve had a day of no kids to do the housework and sort stuff out - then focus on the kids in my weekend day/work the other day.

I often wonder why this isn’t a choice.

Would work well for single parents - work whilst the other parent has the kids, and get a day off in the week.

Alternatively, I’d like what my husband has - a wife.

Your dh sounds very selfish and inflexible

Being able to support yourself isn’t ’stupid ass-kissing capitalist bullshit’. Making yourself economically dependent on someone you’re also in a romantic/sexual/ marital relationship with is a deeply stupid idea.

What is it that you seem to feel such anger about in relation to careers, @Agix — don’t you like what you do for a living? Not having to go to work wouldn’t be ‘amazing’ for me. I like what I do, and it’s valuable.

Well said.

When I look back on my last job (17 years of working in a set role) I think about what it did to me…..it broke me in so many ways and I let it slowly break me and all I got from it was crappy pay, ridiculous amounts of hours, no thanks for anything and feeling like it was all so pointless. I would be there, watching others climb up the greasy pole and for what? To be treated exactly the same way but for a small increase in pay. It’s like some kind of competition: who can climb the ladder the highest and who can do it first? It felt like a very surreal life. It all felt like a nasty competition with people willing to turn on their colleagues in order to further themselves.

Over my 17 years of working I worked in 4 different jobs (but all the same role) and the same traits were seen no matter where I went.

In a lot of ways I did love my job and I certainly miss elements of it, but being away from it now makes me see how I was a slave to it all and making lots of money for other people whilst my physical and emotional health was sacrificed for it.

My husband currently works in a senior role in his job but he recently accepted a new job in a more junior role which will include a 13% pay cut but no amount of money is worth sacrificing your happiness and your well-being for.

It will of course affect our lifestyle, which has already been impacted by my drop of income, but I’m behind him 100%. He has seen how much happier I am now I’m out of the rat-race (to use your term) and he deserves to have the same level of reduced stress in life that I do. Life is too short.

Like you say, who needs a good plated toilet seat?

I don’t think it’s better. I’m on maternity leave with my second but I don’t think it’s that tiring compared to working and childcare/household responsibilities on top of that. Theres less to do during the day if one of you isn’t working and it’s good for sickness etc but I like having the extra money and security. Me and dh are both super close to ds1. And we aren’t living so close to the breadline. I like being able to afford days out, a coffee when I go out etc. I never had that growing up.

I wonder would all the SAHMs be so quick to stay at home if their husbands did not earn good money. Would they stay at home if they did not have holidays or a second car?

One poster said her dad was a lecturer earning 100k in today's money. Both of us work full time and don't even earn that.

At what point are the benefits of SAHM outweighed by the lack of funds to take the family on holiday, have a car??

I would hate to be at home if I couldn't afford to buy an ice cream or coffee at a day out.

I actually think it’s easier if everyone is gone all day!

days we all at home the place gets destroyed by the kids and there’s all sorts of tidying and cleaning to do because we are making meals and have dishes and stuff to clean

the days we all have work and nursery we come home and the house isn’t messy or dirty - no dishes to clean or anything

we always leave the kitchen clean before we go to bed

we don’t even have breakfast as we all get it at work or nursery

so we come home to a clean house as we left it and just give the kids a snack as they’ve had tea at nursery and then. They are pretty much straight to bath and bed

then it’s just dinner for myself and husband and that’s it

i have a day off in the week and the place is in bits by 8am 🤣

Of course life is easier for a working person if someone else does the bulk of their childcare and household tasks for them. That's why rich people historically had (and let's face it still have by a different name) servants and wet nurses.

Of course life is easier for a parent who wants to be with their kids most of the time if someone else works and pays for this life for them.

But is it a better 'model'? Well only if the arrangement suits two people with complimentary interests and skills. Personally I know that if I were a SAHP...

• it would be crap for my mental health as I rely on work to keep me feeling stimulated and purposeful;
• it would be bad for my DD as I don't have a skill set well suited to raising her full time (I've got to be honest about this. I love spending a weekend or evening with her but days and days of continually being in 'mum' role without a break would drive me mad and I don't believe i'd be good at it. I'm just not prepared to do the hours and hours of messy crafts and imaginative things that nursery seems to do with her);
• it wouldn't result in a lovely looking and well-organised home because I'm mediocre at housework and cooking at best, and dire at more intricate practical tasks like home renovations, and even worse at all of the above when trying to look after my DD at the same time. I certainly wouldn't be 'efficient' - love how you seem to assume it's only men with that problem;
• it would mean less money for savings for my DD's future and for lovely holidays and activities for her;
• it would put more pressure on my DH to keep working in a stressful job knowing he has no option to retire early or go part time or step down to a different role or try something different because all our finances depend on him.

Sounds great.

And no my DH wouldn't want to be a SAHP either, or at least not full-time.

I don't think the perfect model exists and I don't get why we even need a 'model'. All people and families are different.

Amen