Full specialist or ASD unit attached to mainstream?

We had the same option and went for specialist. In my experience rarely do the resourced units have the specialist staff and expertise that a proper specialist school does.

Of course they are effectively excluding him. I was talking about the mechanics of getting sufficient Ed Psych input without going private, which personally we found very challenging notwithstanding having a child with an EHCP out of school.

@TizerorFizz OP’s DS is entitled to attend school full time unless the school formally suspends or permanently excludes. This applies to those below compulsory school age and those who are compulsory school age.

Under section 42 of the Children and Families Act 2014, the LA is the one who is ultimately responsible for ensuring the SEP detailed, specified and quantified in F is provided.

Under section 19 of the Education Act 1996, the LA is responsible for ensuring compulsory school aged pupils unable to attend school full-time still receive a suitable full-time education. This is separate to the matter of the EHCP. Alternative provision isn’t provided within the mainstream school - otherwise it wouldn’t be AP.

@perpetualplatespinning Yes. That would be my understanding of this situation. The local school will be named @Ricecakesaremyjam and what the school must provide. What alternative provision were you expecting? Within the school or elsewhere? Normally where a school is named, the provision is based there. Anything else should be detailed on the EHCP.

As for units - some are wonderful but they are not meant to be for dc who should be in a special school. The teachers in them are often advisers to the mainstream teachers and ensure learning and behaviour strategies are followed through. There are special schools for dc with behaviour issues. Just not many of them!

I would ask your question in a local SEN group online. The parents will be well placed to advise on how their children are doing at local schools which might give you a steer on what options there are that might work for your son. I dont know enough about specialist schools to offer an opinion either way, but some mainstream schools do have excellent SEN provision. Its really dependent on what is available in your area and what would best suit your son's specific needs. I hope you can find something that works well for you and him.

It's impossible to answer for you. You should view the local options for both and pick what suits your child best. Specialist schools often do not cater for children without learning difficulties, so this may make the decision for you.

You need to look at the exact wording. If the exact wording is ‘needs close adult supervision at all times’ that is too vague and woolly. It does not mean DS must have 1:1 by a TA at all times during the school day.

The school is unlawfully excluding DS and you could/can challenge that.

Section 19 of the Education Act 1996 only applies to compulsory school aged pupils, so for part of the time the LA didn’t have a duty under s19 to provide alternative provision. But they would still have a duty to provide anything detailed, specified and quantified in F of the EHCP. And it doesn’t excuse the school unlawfully excluding DS.

Full specialist has been life changing for DS (13) and our family. His behaviour is almost never an issue now - nothing that isn't age appropriate/normal. This would 100% not be the case in mainstream. Units are nothing but a cost saving measure to tick boxes IMO.

I wish we'd been able to get into specialist before he did (started for secondary).

@Splain This dc has 1:1 with ECHP. Thats as funded as it gets. It’s funded in addition to the school budget. They only have him for 10 hours a week. They are funded for more than that as I assume DH should legally be full time. If he can legally be part time, the school has a case but it’s unusual. They are effectively excluding him. The LA is the only way out of this as they wrote the plan and they must review it.

@Ricecakesaremyjam So it’s a very small school then. The Head won’t arrange alternative provision. Speaking the LA. If he’s old enough for full time education, he must have it.

If the AR is overdue, you need to contact the LA. IPSEA has a model letter you can use.

If you need to appeal following the AR and you aren’t eligible for legal aid, which can fund independent assessments where necessary, contact Parents in Need. You could, in theory, formally request a reassessment of needs, but personally I wouldn’t do that because you may well still need to appeal only you would have lost time, and it doesn’t guarantee a good report either.

I’m not sure 1:1 would continue

That depends entirely on what is detailed, specified and quantified in F regardless of what the school and LA normally do or want to do. If 1:1 is reasonably required, it should be in F, then it must be provided. The LA is ultimately responsible and the provision can be enforced. Despite what many LAs think, the law is the same in all LAs in England.

It isn’t as simple as saying OP won’t get a choice. She has a right to request a particular (non-wholly independent schools - although she can ask for that) placement, which must be named unless the LA can prove one of the exceptions set out in law. And if the LA refuses to name her preferred placement, she can appeal.

I would suggest you reach out locally and try to connect with SEN parents in your area. FB groups are a good place to start. There is some advice on this thread that would not fly in my area at all and would just result in the child staying where they are. Equally I'm sure my experience would not be relevant to those posters.

The school and SENCo sound awful. There is quite enough of LA ticking the clock down without SENCos doing it too.

Schools have a limited budget for EP time. You will probably need to go over their heads to LA to secure EP assessment in excess of what school is prepared to fund. Remember you can request an emergency AR yourself.

Although ASD resources with mainstream can appear like the ideal solution, how they are used can really vary, so I'd be asking a lot of questions. One I viewed basically only used the provision for registration and lunchbreaks.

My eldest attended one for secondary, it started off well but he became unable to attend any mainstream lessons at all, which the base really wasn't suitable for

My DC3 attended a special school from Yr3 which was suitable for hid academic ability, but it was a huge distance away. I hesitated to even look, but it was the right placement for him. Alas the special secondary he moved to has not worked out

I think you just have to look at as as many options as possible, and get the EHCP spot on, particularly Sections B and F

@Ricecakesaremyjam When is his review going to take place? If he’s only doing 2 hours, get the SENDCO to get this rolling. Of course the LA will have to sit up if he’s permanently excluded. It’s a tactic as old as the hills.

@Ricecakesaremyjam I don’t think you will get a choice of special schools. Which one will actually meet his needs? If the dc are a lot worse than him, then my guess is you wouldn’t get a place anyway. He’s not bad enough.

Regarding a unit, I’m not sure 1:1 would continue. These units are expensively staffed and they won’t necessarily employ 1:1 on top of this provision. I do think you need much clearer guidance on what would meet his needs. When are you seeing EP? Him moving isn’t just about his school pushing him out. His ECHP should be reviewed. You are being poorly served by your school so get the review asap but the LA should put forward suitable options with spaces.

I'd push for a viewing of the schools. You can go and view the special schools in my area.
They could pick up bad behaviours from mainstream just as much as they could in special school.
I have an autistic DC due to start mainstream in September. I want him to go to mainstream as I think he has good academic capabilities and special school would hold him back academically. Many children in special school have severe learning difficulties and the curriculum is really stripped back. I'm prepared for mainstream not working out but wanted to give it a go.
If you think your DC can do well academically with the right support then I'd suggest the ASD unit. If you think your DC will always struggle academically even with support go for the special school.

Can you visit and view the places before you apply? Do you actually have a choice, are these settings not usually oversubscribed?

The problem is they all vary so much in approach and so on you can't realistically say a blanket thing like "children pick up bad behaviour in special schools".

Being out of area doesn’t matter. The school can still be named (for most units, the mainstream school is named in I and the unit provision included in F).

Being ‘full’ also isn’t enough to refuse your preference. For non-wholly independent schools, the LA would have to prove the school is so full admitting DS is incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others or efficient use of resources. Obviously there is a point LAs can do that, but the bar is far higher than LAs and many schools like to admit.

1:1 can be provided. It would need to be in F, though.

If the provision in the EHCP isn’t being provided, have you contacted the LA? They are the ones ultimately responsible. If you have, but it still isn’t being provided, have you sent a pre-action letter? However, provision can only be enforced if it is detailed, specified and quantified in F. If the wording is vague and woolly (e.g. access to, would benefit from, opportunities for, or equivalent) then it can’t be enforced and you should use the review to try to tighten up the wording/appeal when you have the right of appeal.

From your posts id go full specialist placement and not worry too much about academic side at the stage. He needs settled in an environment that can meets his needs then once he is settled and regulated then look at academic side

My DS attended a DSP in years 4-6. There were 6 children, all year 3+. They said they did technically take younger children, but that the needs usually didn’t escalate until the children were a bit older so young ones were unusual. Supervision was 2:1.

DS has gone on to mainstream secondary, with 1:1 TA support. In a mainstream classroom, the focused support is essential, but in the DSP setting he was absolutely fine with 2:1 - there were fewer issues because fewer students.

We really liked the DSP set-up because DS was able to interact with mainstream students with a high level of interventions in the background. On days where his stress levels were high, he could spend the entire day in the DSP. Other days he spent almost entirely in the mainstream classroom.

We went back to mainstream thanks to the DSP. He probably would not have been able to handle mainstream secondary if we had stuck with mainstream primary. If we had gone specialist, he probably would have stuck with specialist because they didn’t seem to gear back to reintegration and that didn’t work for DS - he is academic and the specialist provision around here is not aimed at kids who want to go to university and DS wants to do space engineering.

It is worth finding out if the DSPs around you have kids who are roughly the same age - it won’t be great if your young DC is in with a bunch of year 5/6s. We have four primary DSPs in our borough and we were not given a choice, but it did work out well.

Also important to consider where you want it to go… is reintegration to mainstream your goal? Is specialist secondary the way to go? Around here there are DSPs in secondary schools as well, would that be an option when you get there?