When did parents stop being the boss

Same reason you see loads of untrained dogs without recall.. people don't do the training, for whatever reason. Probably because parenting is boring, tedious, repetitive hard work.. As is dog training!

God, how utterly utterly tedious. A badly brought up brat messing around in a surgery of all places. Because Mum can’t say no, must keg her little angel explore everything.

”Sir down NOW” was all that was needed. No debate, no argument, no negotiation.

We have always double up or stood, especially for seniors. I remember doing so as a teen on the tube, we always sat on each others’ knees.

And when I was heavily pregnant and standing on the tube (not for long so I wasn’t bothered) some teenage boys who were standing had a right old go at the passengers sitting and not offering me a seat. Properly brought up gentlemen, they were 😀.

There are different ways of inculcating children with healthy ways of living. I don't use the same way every time. I like the idea of my children finding their own way, making mistakes and learning from them. That is true learning, rather than just doing something because your parents force you to. Also, I'm a good role model so provide a positive example without ramming "my ways" down their throats. It's a longer game.
I also dislike this idea of teaching your kids everything before they leave home- how to cook properly, do the laundry, apply for a mortgage bla bla bla. The fun and sense of achievement i have from my 20s was learning life FOR MYSELF, discovering life FOR MYSELF, discovering I was resourceful and resilient- not cos mummy and daddy forced me to do things or told me how to do everything.
I liked living my own life, finding my own way. I'll guide my kids to a healthy life. On occasions, and especially when they were young, I'd put my foot down and be authoritarian, but mostly I want them to live their own life, not the one I tell them to.
Theyre now young adults. Polite, considerate, healthy.

I read a thread on here recently where a mother said her 10 year old would not allow anyone except two people to visit their home, unbelievable.

Is there not any point that you just say no and expect them to follow it?

Here’s a situation I had at work recently. Mum brings child with her to her appointment. I’m treating mum, child starts roaming around the room. This is a medical room with cupboards and equipment and similar. Child starts opening cupboards and touching the stuff inside. Mum stays silent. I tell child please do not open the cupboards and touch any of the stuff. They ask why. I say because it’s important and expensive and in a special way so we know where things are. They reply they will put it back after. I say no please just close the cupboard and sit down. They say but they aren’t making a mess so why can’t they just look at things. I say I need them to sit down now so I can continue with their mum’s appointment. They reply again that why do they need to sit down. That’s it’s boring. Their mum lets them and they don’t want to. I say to mum that I need them to sit down or I’ll end the appointment. Mum says well she can’t force the child to sit down if they don’t want to as it isn’t fair on the child and really what harm is it for them to just look and see what is in the cupboard. Child looks very smug. I tell mum that I can’t focus on the appointment if I’m constantly looking to see what the child may or may not be touching. Mum tells child that if they sit down she’ll buy them sweets after. Child agrees but within 30 seconds is up again touching things. I end up ending the appointment. Mum makes a complaint. I end up not getting paid for that time.

Surely a medical appointment is not the time to happily allow your child to question things they are asked to do? And not the time to share their feelings that they feel bored and use it as a reason to rummage through medical cupboards.

I agree with others that parents wanting to be their child’s best friend can be an issue.
They don’t want to discipline their child in case they lose their “lil bestie”. I don’t know about anyone else but I’m able to tell my best friends when they’re acting like a dick and vice versa.
It is possible to be your child’s “friend”, yet still have firm parenting in place, you just have to set that boundary early.

I would describe my relationship with my mum as “best friend” like. She was so laid back but also firm when she needed to be. I (and my friends) could go to her for absolutely anything.
We had/have so much fun together and it does feel like two teenagers hanging out when we’re together. However, I always respected and listened to her and other adults, had clear boundaries, was polite, knew how to behave in public, knew how to behave at school, and knew that when I had behaved like a little shit l that I had to apologise for my behaviour and actually act on that apology, not use empty words.

Which is also what Meant

Can I ask why people think phones are a factor? I’m just interested as I can’t say I’ve noticed any change in attitude or defiance since eldest has had a phone (though we do have quite strict rules with it).

Mostly yes, except for the teacher part. Badly behaved kids in schools are like that because of their parents.

Well in our house it seems to have been in the 5 years between my DD’s being born and my DSS’s. I was shocked when I met them on how much they ruled the roost and how neither my now Dh or their Mum ever pulled them up on it.
And yes, the phones are a huge huge issue.
it’s been an interesting time as our two families mixed as DH began to realise he could actually say no to them and it was made clear to them, as gently as possible, that they did actually have to do things that might not be instantly appealing or entertaining for them from time to time-such as attending family parties where they may not be the centre of attention or whatever. It’s a work in progress and not an easy thing for any of us but it has to be done as otherwise how will they end up?

And I get asked ALL THE TIME “how are your children so polite?” because they’ve been raised that way, and when they’ve made mistakes, it’s been picked up on. Early.

I think the issues we’re seeing in secondary schools now is pretty much entirely down to the breakdown of that role in parenting. Children aren’t raised to respect authority, and it’s causing chaos in (many) classrooms.

I see the way some children act, even children of family members and friends I like, and I despair at how bad attitude is handled, society doesn’t stand a chance. I am all for emotional resilience, but order should not be underestimated.

Exactly- I meant I would have given my child my seat and stood myself so my child sat, not that we both stood.

I think it's about balance. Obviously, parents have responsibilities to guide their children in the right direction and keep them safe etc, and sometimes that might involve making decisions that the child doesn't like. However, in my experience, you also need to pick your battles wisely and work with your child to support them to make sensible decisions, rather than simply laying down the law because you're "the boss".

Just as a side point - the argument that "It depends on the Child because I had 2+ children and they are different..." doesn't really work for me.

Yes, all Children are somewhat different, but it is equally true that you absolutely did not parent your two children the same. No parent does. It is impossible for two children to have identical experiences, simply because:

1, The parents change and learn and develop a lot through having the first Child, so they treat the second one differently.
2, Obviously the second child has a huge extra influencing factor (the older sibling) They are exposed to more mature things early, have to deal with a whole raft of different experiences and situations that the first child never did.
And so on, and so on.

So no, having two children who are different, does not mean that differences in their behavior is entirely genetic or because of who they are. It is perfectly possible that it comes from unintended differences in the environment they grew up in, including parenting styles.

I am an old-school sort of parent and even in school dc are never told what to do. They are encouraged to be well behaved with stickers, sweets and prizes and kept quiet with Barbie videos. Sometimes the teacher will come out at the end of the day and say dc didn’t do x/y/z after she’d asked and is there anything going on at home or what kind of thing do I usually do to get them to do stuff 🤯

Are you very young? You seem to have decided that everyone in older generations was brought up and then brought up their own children in the same way. Common sense should tell you this is not likely to be true. It's not true now, so why would it have applied in earlier generations? My parents, born in the early 1930s, could have been described as authoritarian with my brother and me, but were loving parents who did not expect tiny children to suppress their emotions. Toddler tantrums were not punished.

There are many times in life where there just isn't time to embark on a long explanation and debate about why X is not a good idea and Y is what needs to happen right now. Toddlers have neither the language nor the life experience to understand that sort of conversation anyway, except in the simplest form. Even in the early 90s when my children were tiny I observed parents who behaved in the helpless way described by the OP and seemed to think it was amusing. It wasn't. It's an important life lesson to learn that 'no' means 'no', not 'Oh, all right then, go ahead, it's not the right thing to do, but you've worn me down'.

Interesting about criticism. I often think it’s a pretty useful thing that my kids are unphased by criticism and in secondary the teachers that are shouting and bawling my kids brush that stuff off too. In their hobby they don’t require constant praise and can deal with the older kids being arseholes, they either ignore or give it back to them. All useful life skills I think.

When more parents started to use nurseries and childminders. The nursery workers become the 'boss' of your child for up to 8 hours a day (10 in some day nurseries I've been in). So choose your nursery / childminder carefully and read their policies on behaviour management. Look at what nurseries are allowed / not allowed to do to discipline your child before you make your decision as this is where your child is going to learn a lot of the 'rules' of how to behave. Look at the people working there carefully - they have so much influence over your child's development. Those early years are crucial in setting the boundaries. I know this seems obvious, but I don't think a lot of parents like to admit it.

I think your approach is right.
Mine responded better to stickers when little. Then a well done and pat on the back when older.
They are different, they change. You adapt how you deal with their emotions and help them navigate through it. But you tell them to share that toy and it gets done.

I think what OP is refering to is about doing nothing and letting the child keep a toy that should be shared, so the child learns that crying or shouting gets them what they want. They never learn to share the toy.

Great posts @Barnbrack. It’s hard work staying patient but you can be firm and still respectful of their own thoughts/feelings, taking them into account. I believe it pays off in the long run. Also I would say MH issues are equally prevalent in the adult generation. There is just more awareness across the board.

We don’t want to be our teens best friends jeez no, that’s what their friends are for!

I think there is an element that informed, kind, devoted people have a baby and think that the baby they produce is going to be the one that saves the planet!

There is much caring parenting but how many tell their kids you are an average human, with average human parents (without a trust fund), we have told our kids this, to us they are the centre of the universe, out there you are one of billions so you want to ‘succeed’ (define that how you will) you need to be resilient, kind, know how to behave in different circumstances, learn about who is behind your phone platforms.

But you have to accept your child and your parenting is one of billions and that might be harder for some, there is an ego with parenting as all things, it can be ‘gamed’.

Even when ours we small, they would show us a terrible drawing say, we would say, “you’ve done better” (perfectly true) just to introduce criticism into their lives. They didn’t burst into tears, they looked at drawing and nodded and said “yeah”.

Yep mine sat on my knee today, but I didn't stand up and force her to stand with me to let someone else have our seat.

Completely agree. In many Asian countries the community comes first. In my experience if Western communities the individual is everything.