When did parents stop being the boss

A lot of parents don’t want to be firm and won’t follow through on consequences. That means the kids can do what they want and don’t respect authority.

Hmmm.. I know a parent who won’t talk to her teenage son (nor will her DP) about consent, even though he is dating, because ‘he’d be too embarrassed’. Who won’t tell her other (also teenage) son that he shouldn’t take photos on his phone at school without permission because ‘he’s just messing about and doesn’t mean any harm!’

But of course, we mustn’t impose ourselves in our children’s lives, as we might infringe their rights as human beings…. 🤷🏼‍♀️

We may be talking about different things, becuse there’s no way either of my girls would swear at me or slam doors, but one of them does say no sometimes.
So my own experience of two teenage girls is it’s nothing to do with parenting and everything to do with ND or NT. I set boundaries when they were younger, and I have one dd 15 (NT) who is as good as gold. You would give me star parent of the year if you met her. My other ND child (16) absolutely will not respond to me being authoritative. It would not achieve anything positive at all. She is thriving, but in her own way.

That’s really interesting. I’m not one (governor is as close as I get, so I understand the problems exist but don’t deal with first hand) and not respecting authority is a common theme I hear about.

Phones are the new opiate of the masses and look how they re-wire young people!

Ironically, I am one. It’s a bloody nightmare. I am on both sides of this. I’m finding teaching very very hard now, so much harder than 20 years ago; but have also raised a very feminist awesome teenager who will absolutely stand her ground and will be an awesome adult.

Teenagers are (usually) only difficult when you haven’t set boundaries earlier on. We are gliding through the teen years, as my parents did with me, because we have set firm boundaries. It will be a cold day in hell before a child of mine swears at me or slams a door in my face, and if they try it, it’ll only be the once. This behaviour is normalised these days. It is NOT normal, and it is NOT acceptable.

does anyone have a link to the evidence to say that the mental health problems of teenagers today are a result of less authoritative parenting and not of social media, phones, covid, increased ND, increased processed food etc?

I’d be interested to hear what current secondary teachers think to that.

And yet this better “understanding” of parenting has resulted in record behavioural and mental health issues.

lots of women (possibly people) are people pleasers and as a result often end up really miserable, making bad marriage choices for example as they always see the good in people. People pleasing often comes from being a child of authoritarian parents, who you are always trying to please but never seem to do enough.

I expect parents who grew up like that, don’t want that for their children. They actually want them to say ‘no’.

there’s a balance to be had between the authoritarian style of the 60s and the laissez faire style of today.

I think a lot of the children you’re complaining about, are going to make absolutely awesome adults because theyve learnt to say no.

A lot of people have talked about children having their electronic devices.

I think a lot of the problems are that parents are also addicted to their electronic devices, and they don't spend enough time engaging with their children. Restless children become a nuisance who then have to act up to get their parents' attention.

We were just sent out to play for hours on end and used our imaginations.

I’m not a man, and it’s mostly mothers I see letting little horrors be rude to them. If women aren’t going to enforce acceptable standards of behaviour when they actually can do so then why are we surprised when they are unpleasant adults?

You will note that nowhere do I say that the fathers are not responsible.

Because it's not like they need to learn to respect authority is it?

I think, as a society, we’ve moved on from, what would now be seen as, abusive kinds discipline, and we’ve completely changed the standards of behaviour we expect from adults. We’re literally operating without a playbook, with no idea of what we’re trying to achieve or how to set about it.

There’s also a tendency to confuse respect for personhood with a belief that everyone thinks like me. So with the best of intentions, people treat children like miniature adults, without regard for their developmental stages or needs.

Currently the loudest cultural influence is from
psychologists - not promoting wider education about developmental ages and stages, but warning of the (lucrative) dangers of mental health.

We’re living in fear of anxiety and mental health problems. Which is probably quite similar to how our ancestors lived in fear of sin and eternal damnation. We’ve just switched out church authority for psychology.

And psychologists aren’t bound by a Hippocratic oath, and while at the highest levels there are efforts to promote evidence based therapies, it isn’t a well regulated profession. Some therapies are ineffective, or actually damaging, but that’s not widely understood. Yet most people think of therapy as a the solution to all mental issues, like a course of antibiotics for the mind.

The pharmaceutical industry plays a role too - the idea to medicalise ”generalised anxiety” was brilliant. We can no longer distinguish ordinary stress, and existential angst from psychiatric disorders and we’ve pathologised normal human experience, because it makes money to do so.

The only children I work with have pretty firm boundaries. Also a middle class area.

I think it is all context as well. There are some things we let slide in our kids because in the broader context of how our family works it is fine. Eldest doesn't have a bedtime at 14 because she is inherently sensible, takes good care of herself etc. We don't regulate her 'screentime' because she is busy and active and leads a full life. Likewise the 13 year old, he still has a bedtime because he needs more sleep but we don't control his screentime or what he eats.

The youngest is 7 and we have a lot more control obviously, but even then we say yes to a lot more than some parents might.

I think we understand a lot more about child development now, so parenting has changed, because most of us want the best for our kids. Authoritarian parenting isn't really the best approach.

I totally agree.

This is just typical of a lot of parents these days sadly.

"Because I said so" really needs to make a sharp comeback. No bribing, begging or bargaining with a child FFS.

Goodness, this is awful! I can’t believe they didn’t pay you, that is shocking. You were totally in the right.

When they stopped parenting.

Almost 33 years ago I visited family in North America with my eldest son. I came home really amazed at the style of parenting there were the child was to be allowed make decisions for itself and not be reprimanded as it stunts growth. This included on one famous occasion the 4 year old child having 3 bars of chocolate back to back and then vomiting - it'll teach the child the lesson to pace themselves said the mom. It didn't and I don't think it ever would or could. Myself and dh still often talk about this time as what we saw as the turning point in how children were reared and start of today's problems - without being an advocate for child abuse and smacking, I do believe society has majorily lost the plot on effective parenting and a lot of children are growing up having never never been told no to treats, no to excessive TV or screens, about how to treat others kindly, you are not #1, etc. so to answer the original question, I'd say around 1992

DH and his siblings plus partners would have made a cracking parenting documentary. Now the two kids per family are late teens, the experiment is pretty complete.
DH & I - how to talk so kids listen and listen so kids talk type approach along with Biddulph's raising girls. DH worked full time, I did projects so would completely disappear then be back full-time. My kids, obviously turned out the best.
SIL plus her DH - both worked full time, went for the easy ride, lots of childcare, lots of dumping off on grandparents. Lots of structured holidays with kids clubs, earnt high, burnt out, spent high. Kids are a ADHD mess caught very late, lots of frustration. And a very anxious, eating disorder, sibling.
BIl with extreme attachment parenting partner - with out a strong parenting rolemode, the partner ended up going the attachment route, got totally burnt out. BIL failed to change his behaviour from pre kids so was of no support. They broke up. School refused on pip for mental health and an emotional blank sibling.

So all parenting in the same generation, all crazy different approaches. Mumsnet plus reflecting on my childhood got me where I am today. I'd say I was the boss then unlike my parents, I've mentored and shifted to senior colleague.

How old are your children op?

because if they’re under 12, I would caution you of being too smug.

parenting children under 12 is easy, laying boundaries is easy, it changes when they are physically strong enough (not that either of you whack each other, I don’t mean that, but when you both have the knowledge that they could) and independent enough to make their own decisions and there’s not a thing you can do about it, other than hope they make the right ones.