Mayflower primary school - nappy changing facilities for school aged children

I'm parent to a child starting reception this September so feel well placed to offer an opinion on this.

The problem begins with, I believe, the NHS website. Which advises you to look for multiple signs of readiness and also the notion that children should be sorted in a weekend.

My ds didn't show these readiness signs so I delayed training but then discovered the eric website which advocates potty learning from a young age. I was too late too implement a lot of this at the age they suggest but did do bits of no nappy time every now and then and hot him able to wee on the potty and then bit the bullet and got rid of nappies at 2 and 3/4s and it went OK. He mostly had it at home after a couple of weeks but out and about and at nursery took longer.

Thank goodness I didn't keep delaying though because he became very very stubborn as a 3 year old and would not be taken for a wee any more and wouldsit screaming on the toilet and refuse to go, despite being desperate. He needed to be in control at that age and it would've been so much harder to train then.

I think lots of people miss the 2 year old boat because they're looking for readiness signs or they try it for a weekend and their child doesn't get it reliably straight away so they assume they aren't ready. Then they hit 3 and it's a behaviour based nightmare, hence their kid not being trained at 4. Add on to this the need to take annual leave to train and not just being able to seize the moment at the optimum time and you have school aged kids not trained.

Interesting about the phone number - is that to do with mobiles? Lots of people don't have a landline anymore and I'm shocked at the number of people who don't transfer their mobile number when they change provider so have a new number every couple of years.

Mobile numbers are longer as well, and nobody actually dials them anymore, we just tap on a name. As a child I knew my home number, grandparents number and the numbers of my two closest friends, and probably a couple of others. Now I only know my own mobile number and the landline number for work.

On potty training, DS took a year. I was really stressed he wasn't going to be ready in time for nursery, but he finally got it in the June/July when he was due to start nursery in the September. He got the weeing in a day - left his nappy off, he wet himself and after that always used the potty, it was the pooing in the potty that was difficult and took a long time.

He was eventually diagnosed autistic.

He still struggles with cutlery now at 12, eats most food with his hands. It was suggested back when he had an OT assessment that we might want to consider assessment for dyspraxia.

I work in a school and there has been a massive shift over the last decade in terms of parental responsibility and expectations of schools and early years settings.

We have seen an increase in parents who start a half-hearted attempt at potty training the summer before their DC start school, but quickly give up because it's hard and expect school staff to toilet train them. Most don't even bother to send their non-toilet trained DC in with spare pants because they assume we'll provide them (which we do of course but not the point), and I'm not talking about parents who can't afford spare pairs of pants.

It's not just toileting either, we have so many DC starting school now who can't put their own coats or shoes on and don't know how to wash their own hands, and not because they're not capable but because no one at home has taken the time to show them and help them practice. The last couple of years we have resorted to delivering lessons (actual lessons with a PowerPoint and everything) on how to eat with cutlery because we have so many NT children who still think it's ok to eat a roast dinner with their hands when they're in Year 2.

We've also seen a big increase in parents trying to refuse to collect sick chicken ("Well, can't a TA or one of the office ladies just look after him, it'll be home-time in a couple of hours anyway?") and parents trying to drop their kid off ridiculously early or pick them up late, because they have meetings and assume staff will just be happy look after their child until it's convenient for them.

Because people start far too late
Mine were also all toilet trained by 2.5 or earlier .
Its lack of organization/ planning , just getting it done .
Potty training is just that , training , it involves effort and time from parents , sadly lacking these days
I sent my kids to nursery , they were already fully potty trained and had kids standing next to them at the sand table peeing themselves and they had to step away from the puddle of pee.

There is such a rise in the number of children not toilet trained by school age. (4/5)

I was a nursery teacher as an NQT and we didn't take children at 3 into the school nursery until they were toilet trained. Delayed start meant they were back, toilet trained within a fortnight! Out of 104 three year olds, I would say maximum of three per year weren't trained.

My DD and DGC’s, ‘gentle parenting’, no SEN issues.
Just started toilet training one DGC, now ready for school in September. ( was 4 last month).
He just refuses to be trained. He is a big boy, tall for his age and still in a nappy. He doesn't stay with us during the day any longer as changing his nappy is awful.
I wonder if it would have been easier earlier and later is more difficult. She is now delaying him starting school as she doesn't want him to go to school whilst he still soils himself.

I don't know why this is the case, lack of expectation, lack of routine. Mine were trained at two.

There is such a rise in the number of children not toilet trained by school age. (4/5)

I was a nursery teacher as an NQT and we didn't take children at 3 into the school nursery until they were toilet trained. Delayed start meant they were back, toilet trained within a fortnight! Out of 104 three year olds, I would say maximum of three per year weren't trained.

My DD and DGC’s, ‘gentle parenting’, no SEN issues.
Just started toilet training one DGC, now ready for school in September. ( was 4 last month).
He just refuses to be trained. He is a big boy, tall for his age and still in a nappy. He doesn't stay with us during the day any longer as changing his nappy is awful.
I wonder if it would have been easier earlier and later is more difficult. She is now delaying him starting school as she doesn't want him to go to school whilst he still soils himself.

I don't know why this is the case, lack of expectation, lack of routine. Mine were trained at two.

Yes - it’s my opinion.

It sounds horrific the last thing you need to be worrying about is his education so fingers crossed his transition to high school is smooth .

I hope so too.

They are definitely unique. His cancer started in his bowel but 99% of the time isn't going to cause what happened to his bowel, it's possible it was actually the sepsis that did it because it caused multi organ failure but then he also had a cardiac arrest which obviously deprives organs of the oxygen they need to work correctly so that could be it too. So much happened to his poor bowel at once that they couldn't work out what actually caused it.

It's like he has short bowel syndrome except that he doesn't have short bowel syndrome because though he's had several bowel surgeries and they had to remove some bowel, it was never enough to cause it.

Hopefully you won't have to fight
Your sons needs do sound quite specific and if you don't mind me saying quite unique becsuse of his cancer diagnosis so I hope it's straightforward.

That does worry me. He'll be Year 5 from September and it will soon come around.

Hopefully we'll be able to get him the support he requires.

@Kirbert2 sending love to you and your family and my hopes for an easier future.

I hope you get the same kind of support for high school .

There are different types of special schools but a generic LA special school generally caters for children with learning disabilities, in my LA we actually have four special schools two primary one of which caters for children with moderate to severe learning disabilities and the other caters for children with severe and profound learning disabilities
Same with the two high school, s
It doesn't sound like any of them would be appropriate for your son
So his needs being met in mainstream is appropriate.

Exactly.

To be honest, even if a special school could've accommodated his educational needs, I only would've accepted it if his current school had made it clear that they couldn't accommodate his needs. He's been at his school since he started nursery at 3 (and potty trained 🙃) and changing schools isn't something any of us wanted.

He was still in hospital when school called me, asked about his potential needs and said right away that they'd be able to accommodate him. They were always so eager to have him back and some of the teachers even got teary when he came back. It's such a fantastic school.

Exactly.

To be honest, even if a special school could've accommodated his educational needs, I only would've accepted it if his current school had made it clear that they couldn't accommodate his needs. He's been at his school since he started nursery at 3 (and potty trained 🙃) and changing schools isn't something any of us wanted.

He was still in hospital when school called me, asked about his potential needs and said right away that they'd be able to accommodate him. They were always so eager to have him back and some of the teachers even got teary when he came back. It's such a fantastic school.

Your son has been through an awful lot, why anyone would begrudge him an education beggars beleif he still needs to have his needs met despite no cognitive impairment

Or the assessments take place and you are told that because your child doesn't have learning disabilities, they will never be accepted to a SEN school because the education wouldn't be appropriate for them?

I'm still waiting for that answer.

Is there any data on what percentage of those who start not trained have additional needs? I do fail to see why you’d need to read a book or visit a centre to potty train your average child…

What happens whilst these assessments take place? We spent two years at mainstream waiting on the education board getting their finger out. The continence clinic refused to see him as he was "too young". I was broken trying everything I could. Changing and washing clothing and bedding multiple times a day was such a fun and the cost of nappies and pads was financially crippling me. I used reusables for years but these obviously were not practical as he grew.

Better assessments and earlier intervention is needed. No money though.

My DS turned out to have partial chromosomal deletion. I knew there was something wrong from day one the NHS didn't agree it took a locum doctor to spot the obvious when he was 5! The professor we attended said it was a textbook case.

We were very lucky to even get a place at a specialist school. They weren't closed for inclusion they were closed because they cost too much.