Mayflower primary school - nappy changing facilities for school aged children

Nurseries are usually keen to get toddlers potty trained ASAP as it is far less work for them once they are out of nappies. So I don’t think it’s that.

In defence of those parents, the NHS website (which is a perfectly reasonable place for parents to go for advice on things like this) lists signs of readiness in the order they generally appear, and says that it might be easier to wait until your child is further along than to try and toilet train earlier.

We had a late potty trained toddler, despite doing our best. Finally diagnosed at ten with all sorts of SEND.

I think more parents working full time may also be part of the trend here. Nurseries don’t have time to potty trained multiple children without support from home and without being at home with a parent all day it’s harder for some kids to train.

I’m not saying we should go back to it but stay at home Mums were far more common 40 years ago who had time to devote only to the children and the household (at the expense of their education, career and sanity often).

We’re far more aware of SEN now though. I remember at Primary School there were kids in the infants who had accidents all the time but they soon got the hang of it.

Because people are lazy.

Gentle' parenting approaches aim to avoid conflict or frustration, which can lead to fewer clear boundaries and routines. This, in turn, can delay the development of independence and self-regulation.
So, some parents believe their child isn’t ready for toilet training, but children don’t always become ready on their own. Like learning to walk or ride a bike, using the toilet is a skill that requires patience, encouragement, routine, and consistent practice. Equally, some parents delay starting because they worry about resistance, mess, or stress. Modern conveniences like pull-ups and wipes can also make it feel easier to postpone training, even when a child is capable of learning.
Waiting too long can make the process more difficult, especially if the child becomes comfortable and reliant on nappies.
Excessive screen time means today’s children are growing up surrounded by smartphones, tablets, and streaming content from a very young age. This constant digital stimulation reduces their tolerance for boredom, shortens attention spans, and limits their ability to engage in independent or imaginative play. It can also interfere with body awareness, when children spend long periods focused on screens, they may become less attuned to physical signals like needing the toilet.
Many 6 and 7 year-olds are unable to sit still, follow instructions, or engage appropriately in the classroom. Too many children have not been properly socialised during their early years and, as a result, they are simply not ready for the structure and expectations of school life. This is made worse by permissive parenting styles, where boundaries are not clearly defined, and by excessive screen time, which impacts attention span, emotional regulation, and social development. The result is a growing number of children starting school without the basic skills they need to succeed.
This shift places enormous pressure on teachers and schools diverting resources away from learning and toward behaviour management and basic care.

This.

I say this as a working parent - its pretty obvious that the higher volumes of nursery childcare for children under 3 thst have become common in the last 20 years, isn't producing good levels of child development.

My son has only just received his asd diagnosis he's never come out of pull ups (he can use a toilet to poo independently, just not wee)

Out of curiosity, what do you think has caused the explosion in numbers? I have a child with autism and I have noticed the increase so I'm intrigued. The year below her at school (mainstream), has over 80% with some sort of diagnosed or suspected SEN.

If something happens, for example they get lost, how do you expect them to tell an adult how to get in touch with you?

"Their" phone number is the number to contact their parents, not themselves!

I'm with you here. We have zero family support, work full time and our daughter was in nursery full time from 13 months. She was toilet trained at 2 and a half. We hadn't a clue how to so it so basically googled it and read about it and got it done. We've done the same thing for most things. Probably made lots of mistakes along the way but we try our best.

Parents need to take personal responsibility for their children's development rather than assume that either kids will work it out for themselves or that it's someone else's job.

For children with SEN I completely understand but in the absence of SEN I don't have much sympathy.

These are nine year old children. They should be quite capable of memorizing a number of that length (they are typically 9 digits where I live.) A fair few also don't know how to spell their last name, nor do many know their addresses.

For context, these are classes coming to check out library books, and children whose accounts we are trying to look up. They don't know enough information to be able to find them in the system. The children's services person who was for many years a preschool teacher is shocked - they typically would work with their children before school starting age to know their full name, phone number, and address - it's a serious safety issues if nothing else.

Mind you they don't seem to work now to develop memory skills in the children generally.

My son has an intimate care plan at school. This is a plan with 2 named people who are allowed to change him when he soils himself all signed by us to give their consent.

I think a lot of people do go for a child-led approach and want to wait until the child is "ready". Or else if it's not cracked in a weekend they interpret it as not being ready.

With both of mine I seemed to hit a point just before they turned 2 where I started to really hate changing nappies. I wasn't fussed about whether they were ready, I wanted an end to it and went cold turkey. It took longer than most people are prepared to do it and there was lots of mess but I still preferred it to shitty nappies.

I agree and said similar up thread. About 2% of children were turned away at 3 years old as they couldn't start in nappies.

Children/people/human development hasn't changed in the last twenty or thirty years so something else has.

My son struggled with toilet training, we got there aged about 3 but this was because I knew he was constipated and knew what the implications were for toilet training. I knew this because with my first child Surestart and Health Visitors were readily available to talk to and seek advice which I was then able to use with my next child.

Edited to add that my first child was toilet trained well before two. Exactly the same approach and exactly the same level of effort (in fact a LOT more effort to get there with my second) so luckily the 'lazy parenting' insults don't really bother me.

In the nineties, when my children were little, they had to be potty trained in order to start preschool at 2.5. If they weren’t they couldn’t go. It was as simple as that, so the vast majority of people, SN asides, had their children out of nappies by then. DS2 started school, full time, at 3yrs 8mths, in 2000. He’d been out of nappies for well over a year, was able to get changed for PE, put his coat on and do up his zip by himself, and sort himself out on the toilet.

When I went to work in a preschool, in the early 2000s we couldn’t not take children who weren’t potty trained so the manager changed the start date from 2yrs 9mths to 3yrs. The vast majority of children were out of nappies by then. It was very rare we had one that wasn’t, tbh.

Risk assessments in place in each school/setting/nursery.

There are clear guidelines as part of the EY Framework. Sometimes children have to be changed ‘half in half out’ of the bathroom area, so that the adult can be seen and so that they can oversee other children whilst they do the changing.

Perfect storm, less budget, less staff, more needs and soiled children to change.

That YOUR experience of what worked better for YOU. My experience differs and I found Surestart invaluable.

Surely schools should have changing facilities for SEN children anyway so what does it matter?

My son became disabled due to cancer, he's now bowel incontinent and I'm very grateful that his school already had the facilities needed so he didn't have to not only go through something traumatic but also change schools as well.

They probably don't have landline but too many have their own phone and
even their own social media handle.

How does safeguarding now work when teachers are told never to touch a child?

Yes, they should. Unless there are special needs, this is just lazy parenting.

It wouldn’t surprise me if a decent portion of a class of 9 year olds don’t have a phone number. So if you ask them “who knows their phone number” I don’t find it surprising that not many say yes.
We don’t have a landline, our DC won’t have a phone number until they get their own phones. It’s never really occurred to me to teach them mine and DH’s numbers, but they are only 5 & 3.

Both my daughters could use the toilet, wipe, use cutlery, blow their noses, sit in a chair, listen etc.. before they started school.
Both parents working.
No additional 'village' help.
One with SEN one without.

It's not hard. It's basic parenting.

@TempestTost "know their phone number and last name, that kind of thing. People no longer seem to do this as often (I see kids of 9 quite regularly in my job who do not know their phone number, more than half in a class typically!)"

Yes, but a generation ago people had landline phones, with a 5 (sometimes 6 or 7) digit number to remember (so long as calling within the same area, which the school would be), today they've got mobiles with an 11 digit number to remember. I'm a grown adult and the difference between a 5 digit and an 11 digit number is the difference between instantly memorising and having to learn.