Mayflower primary school - nappy changing facilities for school aged children

Support has changed we used to have surestart we still have a homestart clinging on in our area but it can't take new referrals because we lost funding my mom worked until she was nearly 70 so all the support systems are non existent

It's not always sen either my son has sen he potty trained OK but his dad knocked his progress by putting him in nappies when he had him 🙄 he also tried stealing my potty (ds has sensory processing disorder and only liked one potty) my nursery was very supportive but some arnt! When children start nursery at two it's a given that most won't be potty trained and that the bulk of it would be done in setting but some nurseries don't like this "you have had an entire weekend they should be dry and in pants by now 😂"

It's a big combination of issues

In situations where provisions like the ones your son receives are unavailable then I think the only option is for the parents to come in and change them. It can't just automatically fall onto teachers and assistants. Obviously in an ideal world, they'd all have trained staff like yours, but we are not in an ideal world.

@Kirbert2 I am so sorry to hear about your ds’s cancer diagnosis and I’m so incredibly happy that your school staff are more understanding than @ThejoyofNC.

I thank my lucky stars every day that the staff who work with my own DS are kind and empathetic and actually care about him.

Maybe some pp think a special poo fairy should hover around schools and perhaps even homes to make lives easier for school staff and parents. How terrible that there isn’t one!

80%! That can’t be right surely.

Annecdotally, as someone who works in a school, the children who are not toilet trained by reception are neurodivergent and will be diagnosed or on a pathway by the time they leave in Year 6.

And yes, I'm sure you know lots of autistic kids who were fully trained by 2, but there is a spectrum of needs. Who'd have though it!

There is definitely an increase in the numbers of neurodivergent children in mainstream schools.

Again though, what is the alternative? I think many teachers and assistants now go into it knowing that it is a possibility with how special schools work and even when a child needs special school, it is still often a fight to get them a place.

This is too bad about your struggles with this and I sympathize.

But it's not a discussion about you personally, it's about why schools are seeing so much more of it. Presumably your son would have had these struggles 20 years ago, or 50, if he had been alive then. But that doesn't seem to be what is going on culturally on a larger scale, and it's something that is relevant to a lot of children, families, and schools.

I saw an advert last night for a disposable nappy that could withstand a “poonami” so you could all sleep peacefully. So weird to me. ARE there people whose babies shit in the night and they are just left to sleep in it???? Maybe if you are trained to carry on in a shitty nappy you ARE harder to potty train? This wasn’t an option twenty years ago.

Thankfully no one at his school resents the fact that he dared to get cancer and became disabled as the result of it. They have known him since he was tiny and I was taking his older brother to school and reassured me from as soon as they became aware of the fact that they absolutely still want him at school, can care for him and wouldn't want him to have to move schools after everything he's already gone through.

His school is wonderful and they have gone above and beyond to welcome him back.

I‘m sure someone has mentioned it, but modern nappies are very absorbent and therefore not uncomfortable to wear once child‘s weed in it.

Mine changed childcare settings at 3 (not UK) and the expectation before he went up to the new setting was he‘d be toilet trained. I was convinced he could do it, but wasn’t seeing the success I‘d expect. Not an approach I‘d recommend for many kids, but I had a conversation with him and said the new setting didn’t have anyone to change his nappy like his childminder had been doing for him.

He stopped using nappies the next day and almost never had an accident. It was a week before his 3rd birthday.

I'm not begrudging him care. Obviously if your child has trained staff available then that's good and you have a solution in place that works. But there are plenty of ordinary teachers and assistants who are having to perform tasks like this and I really don't think that's acceptable because it definitely isn't part of their job.

Parent of SEN child. Child had 1:1 in nursery, child needed nappy changes and support in potty training.

Mainstream schools in UK - this is what happened in our schools.

Thd Teacher Assistant was REQUIRED to have special “training & qualification” to nappy change. There was also a special change table that went up & down so staff didn’t get lifting heavy object injury. She did not work with, or change nsppies for anyone else.

Thankfully he was potty training by Reception, but I know there was another SEN child in Reception who needed help sometimes, that child had 1;1 trained.

The change room is there to support children with a documented need. There will be staff who are allowed.

Did HV used to get involved with toilet training?. My lot are 34,30 and 21. Saw FFHV as tiny babys then 9 moths and 2.5 years. Don't remember them involved in toilet training at all

My son was incontinent until aged 7 (health related) he was changed standing in the sink area . Not private, not ideal. I don’t think changing facilities mean parents won’t bother to toilet train. It’s an acknowledgment that there are more Sen kids in mainstream and things need to change .

Who would it help?
Why do you need to know?

We are talking about 9 year olds. Or even 5 year olds, who a generation ago were perfectly capable in most cases of memorizing a six digit number. Or even calling home on their own.

It's a genuine question. Of course he needs an education. But I honestly think this is too far outside of the job description. I'm not sure what the solution would be, but the current one seems very unfair to me.

Years ago the school my kids attended had a couple of kids still not properly dry by school. These were 4.5 and 5 year olds. The school would call the parent to come and see to their own child, or send someone to do it. Teachers never changed them. SEN kids had their own person at the school who only saw to them, no one else.
It was amazing how fast the parents put in some time and effort and got the kids dry.
The parent themselves admitted to the head that they hadn't been encouraging and figured the child would get it on their own eventually.

That sounds hard but 2-5 soiled nappies in a day? That's a lot. What types of food and amounts is your son eating?

You know what isn't fair? The fact that he got cancer and is now disabled because of it.

What's the alternative? He wouldn't get a place in special school because he's capable of accessing mainstream education.

His teacher doesn't clean and change him, for the record. He has an intimate care plan in place as well as an EHCP. 2 named people on his intimate care plan clean and change him and they both work with disabled children and know it is part of their job to clean and change children.

When DS 2 ( now 13 ) started school nursery, the term after their 3rd birthday, it was stipulated that they had to be toilet trained. Everyone I know who wanted their child to attend, made that happen.

Talking to a TA at his Junior School ages 7-11, there are children in each year who need changing daily.

Yes, I think very bad advice on this from many different sources has made it a bigger problem.

That combined with children not being at home much, and better diaper technology, is really a perfect storm.

@ThejoyofNC can you not see that this is an incredibly unkind question to ask the mother of a dc with toileting issues?

He needs and deserves an education. Since the 1990s teachers have known they were training to work in inclusive schools as dc with SEND were moved into mainstream.

@UnawareThat

It sounds like your DGS isn’t getting the support he needs at home. I’m sure his mum means well, but this just isn’t okay. Your dd's son can do what he wants, and others are left to clean up after him. It’s not right to expect teachers and low-paid school support staff to deal with things like dirty nappies, no wonder teachers are leaving the profession. I

I agree that many parents don’t seem to parent their kids properly anymore. The useless behaviour in primary schools is worrying, and sadly, a lot of it starts at home. Sure Start was a great service, and I think it’s something Labour could bring back to really help families and society as a whole.

Do you think it's fair that primary school teachers are having to clean and change him?