Mayflower primary school - nappy changing facilities for school aged children

Larger nappies will be for disabled children too.

It’s a chicken and egg situation.

Nowadays larger nappies are available.

Is it that the later training is happening because of the larger nappies or
that the larger nappies are available because of the later training?

Exactly. I can always tell when someone has never changed an older child when they call it lazy.

I get your point - I suspect the answer is it's just really, really complicated and there's lots of factors. (And a bit of media exaggeration).

But could one factor be we know mental health issues are increasing, and new mums are obviously at risk for postpartum depression which if untreated can hang around for years. We also know families living below the poverty line are increasing, and as a result there are more families in debt, more families using food banks, more families at risk of loosing their homes. All of this can lead to families having less resilience and less ability to find a solution where it isn't an easy process. There have been so many cuts to so many services many families are left barely coping with many different aspects of their lives.

But I don't think this is the answer in isolation - I don't think there is one easy answer. But I absolutely disagree that it is "just lazy parents" and I really feel like attacking parents in the first instance is just wrong (not that I'm saying you are - this just seems to often be the answer).

And even if it is related to parents starting later (and possibly this is one factor), this is a societal issue due to the advice being handed out all over the place and not that individual parents are being lazy.

Yes this is what I don't understand why people think it's the easy option it's not my son,was in nappies untill he was 9/10 due ti his Disabilities, it's not the walk in the park in people think it is.

Even before the pandemic they were doubling the capacity for special school places in my LA in all four special schools so somethings is going on
I i suspect there are a few contributing factors,,expanded population, , in my LA there is a large ethnic minority population where interfamilial,marriage is popular which unfortunately can mean inherited genetic disorders are far more prevalent in certain demographic groups
Of course there will always be some lazy feckless parents ,but it's to simple,to lay the blame entirely with them

My son needs multiple changes at school. His teacher has never changed him and isn't even named on his intimate care plan.

It usually isn't teachers.

Imagine spending years training to be a teacher and you end up having to spend parts of your day changing nappies, no wonder there is a shortage of teachers.

All I know is that I change an older child multiple times a day and I can't imagine that anyone would choose this as the ''lazy'' option. It is hard work and obviously not at all pleasant with an older child's waste.

Toilet training is the easier option if a child is capable.

@Kirbert2but this doesn’t explain why this has increased so much in the last 5 years

and how many of them will go on to get a diagnosis? I'll bet most of them. Our school starting age is young and waiting lists for Autism assessments etc are incredibly young so it doesn't really surprise me.

@Kirbert2agreed with lots of that but see above article - 1 in 4!!!!

I think special schools were more available then because when mainstream schools became more inclusive, funding cuts happened and a lot of special schools closed down.

I'll bet that some just weren't simply diagnosed at school starting age, especially girls who are often more likely to be missed but even more so back then.

I'm sure the odd child starts school not potty trained but they are not the reason for nappy changing facilities at mainstream schools, it's about inclusion for children like my son who need changing regularly at school and changing facilities are far more comfortable for everyone.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp3dykw576yo this article is what I mean

@kirbert2special school for not being potty trained? If these were children who all had serious additional needs then I’d hope this would be mentioned in the reporting

@x2boysI’m asking because I’m trying to understand why we are seeing such an increase in parents struggling with this in schools. There definitely has been a huge increase as there have been so many articles about it… but does the data show there were similar numbers previously but they were discriminated against/were in special schools? Or are the numbers higher now and if so why? I’m not sure that all parents struggling with potty training now would have sent their children to special school in the past?

Mainstream schools are far more inclusive now and those who weren't trained would've just gone to special school which doesn't happen now unless they have other development delays and/or disabilities.

@x2boysand what about primary schools?

No they were not becsuse nursery,s could refuse to take those that weren't. So were allowed to discriminate against children who were delayed in their development for whatever reason.

@KrankyKrackenI do understand your point of view and I’m sorry your son struggled, but my question is why this is so much more common than in the past? Is it perhaps starting later?
When I started nursery at 2.5 we had to be potty trained and everyone was.

I think the actual situation is probably incredibly complicated, personally I think lazy parents are probably only a really, really tiny proportion of the problem.

My personal experience was my older child potty trained prior to 2 1/2 with very little bother. We had a bit of a regression around 3, but powered through that and never really had problems after that apart from the very occasional accident.

My younger child was a different experience altogether - as far as I am aware he is NT although he is still only 5 and does get very anxious about lots of things, so who knows really.

I tried potty training him a couple of times between 2 and 3 and it was awful. Not awful as in loads of accidents but he was just so anxious and worked up, he refused to even go near a potty or toilet, he was hysterical if he had an accident and was completely miserable and constantly worried for the few days we persisted.

Eventually we managed to get him out of nappies about 3 years 3 months but only with an incredibly slow and steady approach (sitting on potty with trousers on watching TV for a few weeks. Sitting on potty with trousers down but no mention of weeing for a few more weeks. Moving very gradually towards removing nappies until he finally started weeing in the potty). But even after we stopped using nappies we had months of issues - he was terrified of public toilets so we had to carry his potty everywhere for about 6 months even after he was far too big for it, he wouldn't use the toilet at nursery for a little while and then only with a very familiar staff member, even at home I always had to go with him for company. And any time he was nervous he would just hold in his wee for hours until he was in pain. I would say we finally cracked it and overcame all these issues and anxieties 8 months after we removed nappies and about 6 weeks before he started school.

So we did it just in time but it was very hard work - certainly I never felt lazy. Would I have had the patience to continue if I had poor mental health myself? Probably not. Would I have been able to continue if I was at crisis point trying to make my money stretch to feed my family? Probably not. What about if I had my own health problems? Probably not.

I just think a bit more empathy for other families and the poor little children at the heart of this is needed. Perhaps we should be targeting the anger at all the government cuts to pretty much everything and the cost of living driving families to desperate places, not parents who are on the whole just doing their best.

That would surely be very confusing for the child ,small children have accidents even toilet trained children
I think reasonable adjustments such as helping the child to reach the toilet would be better than putting her back in pull ups if she's toilet trained .

Just a thought.

The only girl in DD’s reception class who wore nappies was very small for her age.

Her DM sent her to school in pull-ups not because she couldn’t use the toilet but because she had accidents a couple of times a week.

She said was less embarrassing (and more comfortable) for the girl to wet her pull-up and not have to tell anyone than to
have to have a change of clothes.

I wonder whether many of the parents who are sending their DC in in pull-ups are doing it for this reason rather than them not being potty trained at all?

After all when I was in reception kids did have frequent accidents and have to be put into their PE kit. Maybe a wet pull-up after an accident is less hassle for everyone when a reception age child is still accident prone?

As a TA in a mainstream school I, and every other TA I know, accept that supporting young people with toileting needs is a part of the job. It may not be the best part of the job but we do it because we care for the young people in our care.

Personally I would rather change a child’s nappy or help them change after an accident than deal with vomit or wobbly teeth!