To think people applying for hybrid roles while living nowhere near the office - then refusing to come in - are part of why the job market feels so broken right now?

I think this is correct as far as it goes. And if employers started to do this, it might stop people from taking the piss.

What might be trickier is if people wait out their probation coming in to the office, and then start to skive off after they are no longer on probation. It's not impossible for the employer but more difficult.

In a way it creates a worse situation for all employees. My last employer in a small organization tried really hard to work with employees who had unforseen and real reasons to need flexibility, a long-time employee whose mother developed dementia, for example. Unfortunately there were eventually a number of employees who clearly were taking advantage and saw the flexibility as an entitlement. The result being, that flexibility disappeared for all.

So while I'd agree employers need to take action, it's not ok as an employee to behave that way just because you think you can get away with it. You wonder what else those employees might feel they can get away with too.

This goes both ways.
I’ve seen plenty of roles advertised as remote but requiring set days in the office. Or flexible working but everyone must be in Tuesday - Wednesday.
Also many companies will recruit and advertise a role with their current hybrid arrangement, and issue old contracts which state normal place of work as [office], reference the flexible working policy but that it’s subject to change. So you might apply for a hybrid role & be told to be in the office on set days a year in.

I’m a teacher who (like thousands of other teachers are doing) switched to teaching online, I make wayyy more money and have a great work life balance :D

Congrats on new job!

tbh they don't read the covering letters.

When i was going back to work post DCs, i explicitly wrote that I was going back after maternity and that my DH was taking the next few years off to be a SAHP.

I was, amazingly, invited to interview. And (on a panel interview with 9 candidates, only woman) asked, in front of everyone "and what will you do if your child is ill?" "but you child will want its mum"

Ever since then? fuck 'em. I apply for everything and anything i want to apply for.

My partner has landed a high flying job by applying for jobs like this but making it clear it would need to be entirely remote to suit him.

The recent job move has been his pay jump by 30k and he gets to fly to multiple countries first class and do all kinds of exciting stuff.

If you're complaining about it you're actually complaining that companies can hire better candidates when you feel you may have got the job by proximity if that werr part of the criteria. You should think about upskilling yourself instead.

For businesses it's great it means you can hire better candidates.

Yep. And if it's happening all the time, that indicates that it isn't a problem with the recruitment process, it's the company not realising that the package they offer isn't attractive enough to bring in the staff they want, with the office hours they want. Proof is in the pudding.

I'm now in a wfh job and I do miss the office banter, sharing cakes, socialising etc. But my word, I cannot believe how much money and time I've saved without the commute! I know lots of people who applied for hybrid jobs With no intention of going into the office! My friend makes loads of excuses as to why she can't come in!!!

Or in generpa explain what their hybrid means. My bf interviewd at a company advertising hybrid (no mention of anything else). Their version was that employees were allowed to wfh 2 days/month.

Depends massively on the job and the balance of power between employee and employer really. Some people are being ridiculous when they do this, others realistic.

If a particular organisation is seeing this happen a lot, they may have to face up to the possibility that what they are offering isn't attractive enough to get 3 days in the office, and if the wfh options aren't going to change, something else will have to. The more it happens, the less likely it is that the recruiters are just unlucky/shit and the more likely it is that this is simply what the package they are offering will buy.

Congrats and best of luck with the job!

Equally employers need to not advertise hybrid to be attractive and then have totally different terms once you start. My partner has just taken a new job, was told one compulsory day in the office a month the next city over and then one day in that office at a time of your choosing.

The truth is one day a week in the next city over office, quarterly trip to London and every other month to Edinburgh office.

it’s fine for us at the moment but for a lot of people it wouldn’t work and they’d need to withdraw.

Sounds like the managent should be stricter with enforcing the office days. Someone tries to negotiate less tome in office. Say no. Someone not coming in required amount for time, call them out. If they have reason then tell them to come in for 4 days the following week etc.

That being said. My bf is one of these people. He had the intention to come in 2 days a week and the first month he did. He was actually looking forward to having some human interaction. But nobody spoke to him in the office besides saying hello when he walks past. Everyone has lunch/coffee breaks sat the desk. Team meetings are on teams even if everyone is at the office. So he basically goes there to sit alone at his desk and then goes home. I can't really blame him for pushing the boundary.

Then you wouldn't apply for a job there, surely?

I think all of this is part of a general trend of people taking jobs they know perfectly well they can't/don't want to do the hours and expecting the employers to give in to pressure once they've got their feet under the table.

I understand that, it's just frustrating when you're applying and being constantly rejected for reasons that don't actually apply to you.

I've just been offered and accepted a job earlier today, so hopefully my frustrations are over now.

Ironically, due to shitty local transport links, despite it being a 20 minute drive, it is going to take me 2 hours each way on public transport. It would only have taken 90 minutes to travel to Leeds via public transport.

They seem to have a really good team dynamic and progression opportunities, so I have decided the travel will be worth it until I pass my driving test.

I still think that's odd. It's not a candidate's market any more - unless you're in engineering - so candidates don't get to call the shots. On Linkedin, in my industry, vacancies are getting hundreds of applications, so I find it odd that any hirer would be so desperate to fill a role that they'd take someone who made it clear in their interview that they had no intention of fulfilling the role as described.

To meet with clients?! A huge part of our job is client facing - face to face. It’s brilliant. Hate the amount of Teams and Zooms calls we had to endure in lockdown. Why would anyone want to do that on a regular basis?!

But it's a really risky tactic. We have great candidates apply for our roles. It's a very high level of arrogance to assume you are so special that we'll give you benefits no other colleagues get, that we've checked repeatedly you don't need! Worst case scenario you lose out on the role. Depends how important it is for you, I guess.

I don't disagree that ideally a potential employer would assume that you know what you're doing. However, I'd imagine that, for some of the reasons discussed on here, many are cautious about progressing an application from anyone who doesn't immediately seem like they tick the boxes (and yes, I know that 'ticking boxes' is a problematic method when it comes to applying and recruiting).

I disagree. There are loads of different employment niches.

Tech is rife with home working. Small businesses aren't there "following the lead" of the FTSE100 (indeed, it would be rather stupid of them to ape an entirely different business model). Numerous charities not only can cut costs by WFH, they can also accommodate workers with limited capacity which is often part of their mission. Heck, I was bloody annoyed to be told I needed to be suited and booted by a small business to meet our FTSE100 partner, when they were all in cami tops and sandals.

It's a very inaccurate view of the working world to think FTSE100 is that influential.

But they do it then for exactly the same reason as you find it infuriating - they have a lot more leverage then than they had during the interview process. It makes perfect sense as a tactic for them.

I think part of the problem is that often roles are advertised as hybrid (2 - 3 days in the office), but in reality this isn’t a requirement or expectation. My current role was advertised as 2 days in the office (which I was fully willing to do) but there is absolutely no expectation for me to be in. I think I last went in 3 months ago.

I have, in some cases, where I have had the opportunity to upload a cover letter or provide existing details; however, some only asked for my CV and then had a series of tick boxes to complete.

I do think I should be treated as an adult, though, and if I tick a box that states I am aware it is a hybrid role, and another box to state I can reliably commute it is because I am aware it is a hybrid role, and I can reliably commute. My employer doesn't need any more details than that.

Plus, surely, if I want to travel 3 hours there and 3 hours back because I have decided a role is worth the commute for whatever reason, that is my choice, is it not?

That feels like a weird argument, because where I grew up, remote work was very common (even in the 90s).

And we learned from our parents how to conduct yourself at work. That mum's office isn't to be disturbed. That this is how she manages official mail etc. That today we're all hanging out at one person's house and tomorrow the parents will swap because they're all working remotely through the summer holidays.

I learned far more about management and motivation from my mum who worked at home than my dad who worked in an office - until he went remote, that is.

It’s not the same as face to face interaction, listening to other work conversations, and the proof is in the pudding for us. Home working does not help new recruits and it’s pretty selfish for all those who benefitted from that to now refuse to go in. All those in my team do themselves no favours when it comes to progression.