DH won't let daughter go on school trip to mosque

I’ve got no idea which sect you are talking about and do not live anywhere near Gateshead, Stamford Hill or Manchester. If I was a knew what you were talking about I might stand a chance of having an opinion on it.

And no, people are not ‘talking shit’ about Muslims online, we are attempting to have a sensible discussion about beliefs and boundaries but you do you.

I mean it’s pretty obvious what they think. This them and us attitude is absolutely mental and it’s so depressing and stupid yet you all think you’re so clever for it

The difference is that while all of you talking will be aware of the sect I'm talking about, you don't care what they do because they're essentially white people and things like oppression of women aren't actually your priorities.

If you did care, you'd be out in Gateshead, Stamford Hill and Manchester doing something about it. Instead you talk shit about Muslims online.

@MyOliveHelper

But we don't forbid labioplasty because someone thinks it makes them a more worthy mate or human

That's entirely up to them. They're adults and live in a culture where trimming the labia is not a requirement for marriage, for adulthood or to protect their virginity.

They are having the surgery under sterile conditions, are fully informed of the risk and no one apart from them cares if they have it or not.

Sorry but rough area? What did you think was going to happen on a school trip? Your daughter would be coerced into county lines and sex work whilst the teacher spoke to another child?

I find it slightly less than believable that a Mosque linked with extremism is inviting primary school visits in the name of community cohesion.

I’m talking about having open discussions where the moderate Muslims in this country involve themselves so we can understand their opinions better and find some common ground and hear their thoughts on the extremists as I said in my previous post.

The answers to the rest of your questions are clear in the thread - I’m not going to plough through your disingenuous list individually.

I am quite stunned that you would discourage open conversation with all parties involved in this topic. It says more about you though.

We stopped DC from going to a Mosque visit because it was in a rough area known for drugs, prostitutes and violence.

The Mosque also had produced a number of high profile Isis figures and a teenage girl had ended up out there.

The school were trying to pressure us into changing our minds.

As explained above the two procedures are not comparable and that's because of consent.

If consent is not freely given, then it's not consent. A child can't give consent and I understand that babies are having FGM in the UK to circumvent the law.

If a woman is undertaking FGM because if she doesn't she's a child, unclean or can't marry, then that's not consent.

If a woman agrees but has no idea of the potential ramifications such as infection,death, menstrual problems, problems with sex and childbirth - that's not consent.

It's illegal for some women, not others.

Have you ever read the classifications of FGM? Particularly type 4?

Are the Muslim children getting a reciprocal visit to a church?

The difference is that while all of you talking will be aware of the sect I'm talking about, you don't care what they do because they're essentially white people and things like oppression of women aren't actually your priorities.

If you did care, you'd be out in Gateshead, Stamford Hill and Manchester doing something about it. Instead you talk shit about Muslims online.

I think it's pretty obvious that I'm not in favour of any mutilation of girls or women.

Unfortunately in some cultures, women risk being ostracized if they don't have it. They won't be able to get married and it's seen as an essential rite of passage.

Education on the dangers of FGM is scarce and women may consent because they don't know the dangers or feel pressurised to do so.

The vast majority of FGM is carried out on children.

When you say 'including ours', do you mean the UK? I'm afraid to inform you that it's illegal.

So if women from cultures that value FGM (including ours) want to have type 3 FGM in a Harley Street clinic, they should be allowed to?

Is your only issue that it's performed on.children? Because some cultures actually don't perform it on children at all. It's performed on young adults as a rite of passage to adulthood. So are you okay with that type of FGM?

That’s good then - you’ve done a good thing in reporting it.

but these are quickly shut down with accusations of specific prejudice towards their wider religious/cultural group than valid criticism of their sect.

So you can see the parallels in this thread then? With the constant shutting down of conversation either accusations of racism and Islamophobia?

There's a difference between a woman consenting to surgery and a child being forced into it.

This is not necessarily a religious issue so much as a cultural one in some parts of the world, especially underdeveloped countries.

And look at some of the Christian cults in the USA who were making young girls marry their leaders, the Sugars where the girls were basically household maids and nannies, with restrict on clothes, privacy, significant corporal punishment, segregation from the outside world etc.

I don't think what a high level of unconscious bias you are viewing this through.

Oh Lordy me! Hie many pages do you want me to scroll back? Why can’t you just ask your question again if you are that keen for me to answer? I’m putting my shoes on for the school run.

If you stop making personal comments, I'll stop asking you not to.

You seem new to forums. If you go back a few pages, you'll see the last post of yours I responded to. If you press quote (bottom left of the post), you'll quote the response and can add an answer at the bottom.

Please let me know if you need further assistance.

I'm not trying to justify it, I'm saying if you're against it, because against ALL of it. Not just the foreign kind

Yes the local authority are aware and work with the community to preserve their lifestyle. There are a few reports about the school issues in the papers, but these are quickly shut down with accusations of specific prejudice towards their wider religious/cultural group than valid criticism of their sect.

They have extensive rules around what to wear - I think some would wish they were as simple as wearing a burkha and niqab at times. These rules all orient around tradition and modesty.

FGM also occurs in hospitals, legally, around the world. Including this one. The difference between elective labioplasty and some types of FGM is that the West agrees that a woman with certain looking anatomy might want to change it aesthetically. Or even if she doesn't, she might want to fit our ideal. So we get qualified surgeons in safe conditions to modify her body to fit our ideas about what is valuable.

We are seeing now with cosmetic surgery that people will find unsafe ways to access it and meet the ideals that society has set. I know for a fact that those who have the kind of FGM you're speaking about will access safe surgical care if they have the means to do so. You see this in women from the ME who often have it performed at world class hospitals.

Of course I agree it should be illegal. But that's not all I'd ban is what I'm saying.