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To think Starmer has shot himself in the foot.

289 replies

TheQuickRobin · 13/05/2025 20:17

This isn’t about my own opinion but political strategy.

So he does this Island of strangers thing wanting to appeal to Labour heartlands who have gone to Reform. But.

I just think Reform voters won’t believe him?

Tories hate him becaus he’s Labour.

Middle class Labour lefties will be put off by the message.

Who does he think he’s winning over?

Anyone on here had their opinion of him changed?

IABU - I thought he was a prat now I think he’s on my team

IANBU - EITHER I thought he was a prat, still think he’s a prat OR I liked him now think he’s a prat.

Very unscientific poll here!

OP posts:
TheFastTraybake · 14/05/2025 16:50

Somerford · 14/05/2025 16:21

I did a miniscule bit of research to find out why Albanians would be justified in claiming asylum here. Seems to me that they aren't.

I said why people come here, not whether they're justified in seeking asylum.

MakingSpaceForJoy · 14/05/2025 16:36

TheFastTraybake · 14/05/2025 16:07

Refugees but only the useful ones eh?

I think my comment about refugees was separate to that about controlled immigration.

We should absolutely take our fair share of refugees and find a better way of doing it. Once we have welcomed them they should be given every opportunity to develop skills and encouraged to assimilate and contribute as I’m sure they’d want to.

moto748e · 14/05/2025 16:28

mumda · 14/05/2025 16:25

Are all taxi licencing council rules the same?

Many many cars in Oldham are registered in Wolverhampton.
I assume it's because either it's a lot cheaper or there's some slacker rules for Wolverhampton.

www.oldham.gov.uk/info/200204/licensing/2702/hackney_carriages_and_private_hire/2
includes a Driver Awareness Training course which covers
The questions will cover the following topics, all of which will be covered in the training provided:

Licence conditions/policy
Customer care skills
Basic numeracy skills
Child Sexual Exploitation (CSE)
Road signs
Highway code

VS
iapply.co.uk/taxilicensing/driver
Which doesn't.

Perhaps that's why drivers register with Wolverhampton.

As for his strangers comment, strong communities need to be able to converse. I think it was Mylene Klass who says of her immigrant parents - they both had to learn to speak English and that really helped them fit in.

Links removed (Cut and paste it) as I think 2 links is stopping me post.

Short answer: yes. Taxis are cheaper to register in Wolverhampton, you see them all over the country. I read a piece on it in the Liverpool Echo a while back.

ruffler45 · 14/05/2025 16:26

MoominUnderWater · 14/05/2025 16:24

Labour need to get rid of Starmer. He’s a PR disaster, he’s so detested by the media and a lot of the public any good stuff (such as the Employment Rights Bill, which btw Farage voted against)which btw is getting lost in the negative headlines.

And who in the labour party would replace him? cant think of anyone I would put any faith in....

mumda · 14/05/2025 16:25

Are all taxi licencing council rules the same?

Many many cars in Oldham are registered in Wolverhampton.
I assume it's because either it's a lot cheaper or there's some slacker rules for Wolverhampton.

www.oldham.gov.uk/info/200204/licensing/2702/hackney_carriages_and_private_hire/2
includes a Driver Awareness Training course which covers
The questions will cover the following topics, all of which will be covered in the training provided:

Licence conditions/policy
Customer care skills
Basic numeracy skills
Child Sexual Exploitation (CSE)
Road signs
Highway code

VS
iapply.co.uk/taxilicensing/driver
Which doesn't.

Perhaps that's why drivers register with Wolverhampton.

As for his strangers comment, strong communities need to be able to converse. I think it was Mylene Klass who says of her immigrant parents - they both had to learn to speak English and that really helped them fit in.

Links removed (Cut and paste it) as I think 2 links is stopping me post.

MoominUnderWater · 14/05/2025 16:24

Labour need to get rid of Starmer. He’s a PR disaster, he’s so detested by the media and a lot of the public any good stuff (such as the Employment Rights Bill, which btw Farage voted against)which btw is getting lost in the negative headlines.

Somerford · 14/05/2025 16:21

TheFastTraybake · 14/05/2025 14:40

You only have to do the most miniscule bit of research - aka googling - to understand why Albanian people came to the UK. But I imagine that is beyond you.

I have no respect for people who describe fellow human beings as "illegals". None at all. And being as you neither know nor care the first thing about how the world works and the virtually insurmountable barriers presented to desperate people, I'll leave you to wallow in your ignorance.

I did a miniscule bit of research to find out why Albanians would be justified in claiming asylum here. Seems to me that they aren't.

EasternStandard · 14/05/2025 16:17

LakieLady · 14/05/2025 15:34

I don't think Starmer gives a shit, tbh, he's too busy trying to look like a Tory. If he gave a shit, he wouldn't be targeting disabled people, many of whom are vulnerable.

As far as voters go, friends and colleagues that I've discussed it with will be switching their vote to LD or Green, depending on which of the two they think is most likely to succeed.

It's not an issue for me, as I live in an LD/Con marginal, so I vote tactically for the LD anyway.

Yeh you’re right I doubt he does.

TheFastTraybake · 14/05/2025 16:07

MakingSpaceForJoy · 14/05/2025 15:53

I never said I disagree with immigration. In fact I don’t want it to stop. I just think it needs to be highly controlled and 100% skills based.

I also agree with taking refugees.

You seem unable to have a level headed discussion where both sides are taken into consideration.

Calling me ignorant and unpleasant is just childish. Grown ups tend to debate things without insults.

Refugees but only the useful ones eh?

Rivypike · 14/05/2025 16:07

Badbadbunny · 14/05/2025 13:13

Their paymasters! The public sector unions. Nothing else matters to them as they can't bite the hand that feeds them.

And the Tories ? Unfettered greed ? Corruption ? Self interest ?
Don’t worry, when Nige gets in he’ll no doubt ban unions and get us out of the ECHR. So win win all the way.

TheFastTraybake · 14/05/2025 16:06

Upstartled · 14/05/2025 15:55

Oh, personal insults now? Well, that's how you know you're talking with tolerant left.

As if you know how I vote!

Rivypike · 14/05/2025 16:03

Badbadbunny · 14/05/2025 14:53

But he really didn't get substantially more votes than Corbyn did 5 years earlier -the votes were actually very similar.

He won a landslide victory not because he was popular and won lots of new votes. He won because the Tory vote collapsed.

So he's really not popular at all - barely any improvement on Corbyn.

Once Tories get a decent leader and start to look half way competent, Labour will be out of office for another decade or so. If Tories don't turn it around, then we will have Reform in power at the next GE.

Let’s hope the tories never get a chance at governing and are absolutely screwed. They certainly do not deserve another chance at power. Their party was hollowed by Johnson and there’s no one decent left. Their policies have also proved to be a busted flush looking at the state of the country post Tory Brexit.

Upstartled · 14/05/2025 15:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Oh, personal insults now? Well, that's how you know you're talking with tolerant left.

MakingSpaceForJoy · 14/05/2025 15:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I never said I disagree with immigration. In fact I don’t want it to stop. I just think it needs to be highly controlled and 100% skills based.

I also agree with taking refugees.

You seem unable to have a level headed discussion where both sides are taken into consideration.

Calling me ignorant and unpleasant is just childish. Grown ups tend to debate things without insults.

TheFastTraybake · 14/05/2025 15:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MakingSpaceForJoy · 14/05/2025 15:47

TheFastTraybake · 14/05/2025 14:40

You only have to do the most miniscule bit of research - aka googling - to understand why Albanian people came to the UK. But I imagine that is beyond you.

I have no respect for people who describe fellow human beings as "illegals". None at all. And being as you neither know nor care the first thing about how the world works and the virtually insurmountable barriers presented to desperate people, I'll leave you to wallow in your ignorance.

I’ve lived and worked in 4 other countries. In 2 of them I was a Regional Head of Recruitment for a global consultancy. I dealt with government immigration centres. I practised their laws. I’ve been an immigrant in 4 countries and understand and respect how they operated.

I think out the 2 of us, I’m probably the one with the most knowledge and experience of being an immigrant and working with hiring people from overseas. Hardly lacking in “how the world works” eh?

TheFastTraybake · 14/05/2025 15:47

User32459 · 14/05/2025 15:37

'illegally' If I break into someone's house i've done something illegal.

A country without proper borders is nothing.

I'm not objecting to illegal as a verb. I'm objecting to it as a noun.

gannett · 14/05/2025 15:46

God give me strength not to argue with people who think that how we live now - or how they imagine we lived 30 years ago through a haze of false nostalgia - is "how it's always been" and some kind of natural law.

gannett · 14/05/2025 15:45

User32459 · 14/05/2025 15:37

'illegally' If I break into someone's house i've done something illegal.

A country without proper borders is nothing.

The nation state and its borders are a relatively recent, and very artificial, development compared to the aeons of history defined by the human urge to migrate.

User32459 · 14/05/2025 15:37

TheFastTraybake · 14/05/2025 14:47

Oh sure. That's exactly why we are where we are now. People like me pointing out that nobody is "illegal".

'illegally' If I break into someone's house i've done something illegal.

A country without proper borders is nothing.

LakieLady · 14/05/2025 15:34

EasternStandard · 14/05/2025 12:03

I’m guessing a fair few who will be hit by this voted Labour at the last GE.

The issue is does Starmer care if those votes are lost and who would they vote for instead

I don't think Starmer gives a shit, tbh, he's too busy trying to look like a Tory. If he gave a shit, he wouldn't be targeting disabled people, many of whom are vulnerable.

As far as voters go, friends and colleagues that I've discussed it with will be switching their vote to LD or Green, depending on which of the two they think is most likely to succeed.

It's not an issue for me, as I live in an LD/Con marginal, so I vote tactically for the LD anyway.

BIossomtoes · 14/05/2025 15:25

You keep on about hypocrisy @EasternStandard but with no indication as to what you’re referring to. What exactly do you find so hypocritical?

EasternStandard · 14/05/2025 15:08

MyHeartyCoralSnail · 14/05/2025 14:50

He is, and always has been an unprincipled self centred tosser. Why people voted for him fuck knows.

He will be gone well before the next election - probably sooner than later now

Edited

Tg others see it.

EasternStandard · 14/05/2025 15:07

Badbadbunny · 14/05/2025 14:56

I agree. Photo driving licences have become a kind of default ID card. We need something similar for non drivers and then we're nearly there and can start expanding the use to link through to other official government websites like voting registers, access to NHS, immigration status, right to work status, etc. As you say, other countries have ID cards and some have had them for a long time, with no serious detrimental effects.

This reminds me of the hoo haa on here with ID for voting. No doubt the Labour crowd will applaud similar for anything else.

They deserve to go for a grade hypocrisy.

TheFastTraybake · 14/05/2025 15:01

MyHeartyCoralSnail · 14/05/2025 14:56

The thing is though is that if everyone who is persecuted in a country flees it, that country will never change. If everyone who was gay had fled say England over the centuries when they faced persecution we wouldn’t have the more tolerant society now.

Much of life is an accident of birth, we should be focusing our funds and resources on getting other countries to change to stop the persecution so people wouldn’t need to flee.

Is that the advice you'd give to your kids then? Stay and be persecuted to make life better for other people maybe, at some point, possibly? Is that what you'd do? Were gay people murdered by the UK government because they were gay?