To feel it’s a motherhood penalty… AIBU?

Actually someone pointed out that I'd added up wrong - you'd need to earn a little more each to take home the same so its not quite as extreme. The point stands though - that sort of salary isn't as you'd think and a person who is a single parent shouldn't be vilified for making a good salary or wanting fair flexibility.

We work flexible time and I probably go and get my kids three times a week. They are in secondary though so completely ignore me from the moment we are home and I get on with my work until they are hungry about 6! The issue here is the looking after smaller kids for the rest of the day imo.

It’s not a motherhood penalty. It’s working full time.
You can earn £95k that’s a massive salary , surely you can work out an after school plan ?

A lot of people I work with in the City, men and women, log off at 4 so they can pick up their kids, then log in again once the kids are in bed, or their partner has taken over. It's not like they're trying to work while simultaneously whipping up dinner and helping with homework.
None of them were hired on that basis though - it's a perk that has to be arranged once a certain level of trust has been built up and it's only going to be allowed in roles where it won't interfere with productivity. Sometimes it works better than a straight 9-6, because it means the same person in the UK has overlap with colleagues in Asia and the US but still gets some family time in the middle.

Yikes 😧not the point of this thread but if that’s true, I find it crazy that a couple on much less between them would take home the same.

I knew the tax system was harsher on singles (parents or not) but didn’t realise to what extent. Sounds like it needs reform.

Things were pretty hard before Covid….. long commutes, road congestion, presentism.
Covid gave single parents and women and disabled people more opportunities. I don’t see why this is a bad thing (depending on your role and training).

there is still a gender pay gap because of the modus operandi of conventional office hours!

Down with the patriarchy!

They want to reduce your salary by 20k. Would it cost less than 20K a year to hire someone to pick your kids up for you or to attend an aftershool club?

I hear there’s a particular number around 100K where single earners get hammered with tax but I don’t think you’d quite reach it, but do the maths and see how much extra you’d take home if you agreed not to leave for the school run.

Is @Yudl coming back? 👀

Time to step up and make adequate childcare provision, use after school. Get wrap round care. Salary is paid in order for you to make adequate arrangements and work core hours. Use after school.

What you going to do school holidays?How will you cover all holidays?

You’re getting £95k and you want to step back? This is what the £95k pay covers, you making adaptations.

Thats literally what a salary is, financial remuneration for your time and expectation you arrange your commitment to fit around work
I mean really, what did you expect with a pay rise ? Less responsibility and time to do school run?

Time to step up
Time to not cut your hours in new role

It’s not since Covid. I managed one 30 years ago. It was a nightmare, she was completely unreliable and the rest of the team had to carry her. They were beyond pissed off.

What do you mean this would never be a problem for a man?

Are you suggesting if Op was a single father the employers would allow them to pop out to collect the kids? If so yes, that would sexist but I doubt that’s the case. I’m fairly sure they’d decline a single father’s request too.

I’m not sure how you’re getting that she’s been treated as if she’s the same as a man. “Woman” is not interchangeable with “mother” btw. Some women don’t have kids and some men do have kids.

She is being held to the standards of all the employees there including child free coworkers. That may or may not be fair, but I don’t see how it’s treating her like a man.

I think we need to do more to make sure absent fathers pay for their kids and for people with kids in relationships they need to make sure they both pull their weight but I don’t think it’s necessarily the responsibility of workplaces to reduce the work of some mothers because their partners aren’t there/ adequately helping.

I think you’re utterly unreasonable and it was foreseeable they’d decline that request. Time to step up and wise up. A 95k job wants you available and present
Pay for after school,make adequate childcare plans. Christ on £95k you’re expected to step up, lean in,be available. Finishing at 1530 is a short day, and potentially more work for other colleagues left whilst you’re doing school run and have a child at home

out of interest is this your thread?offered 95k Job but want family friendly terms

It is not a penalty. You get to choose. Either you sort out after school care and work full time or you take finishing at 3.30 and get paid accordingly. Few jobs at this level would be prepared to let you do that and I would take it. A promotion (so career progression) and working part time/ being able to spend more time with DC for more money than you are on now?

You can feel miffed, but don't expect anybody else to.

I work somewhere that allows people time for 'school run' in the afternoon. They take it out of their lunch, but it's still really annoying when you're trying to schedule meetings. A lot of people at my place work 8-4, so when you take it into account that some people finish at 4pm and some people are out between 2.30-3.30 for 'school run', and then people often take lunch 1-2, it doesn't leave many options for afternoon meetings.

Take the £75k and log off everyday at 1530. It’s the perfect set-up.

I don’t really understand why this is an issue? For £20k difference in salary use a childminder/after school club!

This must be a post Covid lockdown attitude.
When my DC were in primary they went to after school club with all the other children whose parents were at work. During working hours you’re meant to be at work / available to do work.
why on earth would the pay you for full time hours if you’re not available every afternoon?

Why not? If the shifts were covered and people were happy to work like that?

I do a job that can absolutely be done very flexibly, I have no meetings and little collaboration with others, I work very independently. I can go for hours without getting a single email. And I can do the bulk of my work just as well at 9pm as 10 am, especially as a chunk of people who do email are in the US.

My workplace, pre-pandemic, hated flexible working and made it very difficult to get. People on this thread would assume a valid business reason for that. Colour me astonished when a few years later the director in charge of this told me that it was because they were paying a lot of rent on a fancy office and didn’t want staff to not be there. That was it. Nothing to do with anyone’s actual role. No valid business reason. And when we were all sent home during Covid, well, gosh, everyone worked really well and we had some of our most profitable years.

This thread is dripping in petty bitterness and jealousy. Still, I’m big believer in karma 🤣.

Working hours were never originally made to fit in round DC which I guess is patriarchy.
It's only since covid that you can get a part time season ticket.
So yes parents and that's usually the mum who does most of the childcare has to make compromises.
Is an after school club or child minder a possibility?
Many employers are more flexible nowadays and in my work place some, usually senior, colleagues do a school run then sign in in the evening.
The flip side is they work through lunch and now is become common place for meetings to be scheduled over lunch time to accommodate them, when I want to take my lunch!
Your employer isn't being flexible, which is a shame but I guess their prerogative, it must depend on the role, there are a lot of jobs which don't offer flexibility, you either take it their offer or you don't.
A small payrise and less working hours could be seen as a win.

Your numbers aren't right. 33k x 2 is roughly 5.5k gross. More like 4.5k net, and that's not accounting for pension, student loan etc. You'd need two people on more like 43k each for 5.5k net.

I disagree, working 8-8 (for example) but logging off 9-10 for drop off and 3-4 for pick up and 5-6 for dinner would be massively disruptive to a work day and not healthy. I think it's interesting that working early and late with long breaks seems to be desirable in a WFH office job. If someone worked in Starbucks and were rotaed on 8 hours a day 8am - noon and 4pm - 8pm I don't think you'd be arguing it was a healthy work dynamic.

Good for you….?

You can do those things even if you have kids you know 🤫

I do agree with your previous point but no need to try and be a dick about it!

This

They’re only signs of an unhealthy work dynamic if you assume 9-5 is healthy. Again - a pattern designed by men for men, not factoring in any domestic responsibilities.

Bit nosey, but can I ask what your profession is to earn a salary like that?
I'm genuinely very interested!