To feel it’s a motherhood penalty… AIBU?

I see on here as on other threads that the husbands career continues as normal with no impact on their working hours or career yet women are frequently saying that motherhood impacts their career, they can't afford to work due to childcare etc.

I don't know everyone's individual circumstances but the bigger question needs to posed is why is childcare not being shared equally between parents. Isn't childcare a shared expense and responsibility for both parents to consider when working not just always fall to the mum to have to organise everything. I see post after post of men who supposedly can't request flexible hours or have to work long hours and can't change anything about their work however the women always seem to can and I can guarantee many of them are doing the same jobs as fathers.

Again individual circumstances apply but for me it is part of the general conversation around parents who work.

As far as WFH goes, I’m a big advocate of it in situations where it’s workable, there’s no negative impact on the workplace or colleagues and where people don’t take the piss.

the key thing is having a robust WFH policy in place. Where I work, WFH started off as a bit of an informal hangover from lockdown days. It was soon discovered that some people were equally professional and productive when WFH, but a minority never picked up their phone, or took suspiciously long to return calls. Then someone ‘WFH’ was spotted doing their food shopping - not a quick dash to the corner shop but a full on trolley shop at 10am during core work hours. Then a fairly senior guy it turned out on his WFH day was picking his reception age daughter up from school and looking after her for the last couple of hours of the working day!

we now have a firm WFH policy in place. Childcare has to be in place. Our work laptops have trackers. Fine if you’re doing non confidential work in a co-working space, or some other reasonable local place - but if you were found to be on a long weekend to France, questions would be asked! we also expect anyone WFH to be available to come into the office if needed. So for example, just because you usually WFH on a Friday, if the company wanted you in for an in person meeting next Friday, they would expect you to come in. At the end of the day, if it’s a work day, you should be available.

imo robust policies quickly differentiate between those who are genuinely WFH and are just as contactable and productive as they would be in the office, and those for whom ‘WFH’ means ‘a day off while trying to fit in bits of work around other stuff to look like I’m taking it seriously.’

I think you have two very good options:

1. priorities work-life balance and work until 3.30 for £75k

2. prioritise income, get child care and work for £95k

But generally yes, motherhood is not helpful for our careers. My DHs work life went on as normal while I’m trying to squeeze in a few hours in the evenings and weekends in my freelance business but I’m nowhere near the hours I did before DC and my career and income suffers.

It's a difficult thing to hide to if they work with a computer too as things like outlook and teams will soon show them as being away and your email app will often tell people how many hours it has been since they were last active!

How are you meant to “prove” childcare if there is no payment involved? Grandparents, reciprocal arrangement with other parents, older sibling, them being older enough in your expert opinion as their parent to not need childcare?

(I just mentioned lockdown to be a little tinkerish.)

That's as may be, however I can only ask and they can either say yes or no. I've worked similarly successfully in the past (been a single parent for 4 years now), and can refer them to my old bosses to confirm.

If the shorter hours are still a pay increase on what you’re earning now it could be an opportunity for you to balance working and spending more time with DD while she’s still small. As a former working mum I would have loved the opportunity to have career and more family time. Although you may feel this disadvantages you against full time colleagues.

I agree high school children shouldn't need child care but I see no problem with having to provide evidence of childcare given most organisations have strict policies on working while looking after children. It isn't that much different then providing a sick note to evidence while you're not at work.

And I'm not sure why lockdown is being brought up. We aren't in lockdown anymore and childcare is available for those that need it. And if anything lockdown showed how impossible it was to work while looking after children not to mention the impact it has had on children.

This happened in my team. I had a mother with a 10 year old daughter and she was taking work-from-home days to be equivalent to time off. No response to emails for hours. Someone tried to contact her at 11am and, when she answered the call, they found out that she had gone to buy groceries that morning. She arranged parent-teacher sessions during work hours or took her kid to dance class, and she was clueless as to why that was unacceptable. If OP surreptitiously nips out daily to pick up her child after 3.30pm, it will backfire sooner or later.

That sounds like something that could land your employer in a tribunal.

I trust they pay for the childcare that a 12 year old doesn’t need? There are no holiday clubs round here for over 11s.

Also, what did they do during lockdowns when there was no childcare? Sack all their staff with children, or know that their employees would do their best in extremely trying circumstances?

I have plenty of friends who have children and plenty who don’t. There are clearly enough people in the world without adding some more to it - particularly ones who weren’t desperately wanted. I promise I’ve never felt anything about my child free friends and family except - at times - slight jealousy when I was really in the thick of it 😂

Under 13?! There’s no provision here at high school so I don’t actually know who I’d have paid when my daughter was 11/12 (she’s s1 now and 12)

absolutely appropriate for primary ages but I think it’s a bit silly for a high school aged child. My daughter has a key and comes home after school. I work until 5 or so and pick my son up from after school club

And the award for hyperbole and excess punctuation goes to….!!!!!
Btw a violation is a breach of an agreed protocol. There is no such agreement that MN is parents only

Employers absolutely are tightening up on WFH or bringing people back to the office as a result of things like this.

I haven't withdrawn WFH completely- as someone with a large team (around 50) - but I have swung from my initial naive assumption that I could trust people to do their work. I now do a few things to test out whether childcare is definitely in place and I make expectations very clear early on and stamp on any early signs of pisstaking.

The trouble there is you are asking them to put a great deal of trust in you that when you start this arrangement, you don't struggle to stick to it and not be distracted by the kids that won't go to bed or can't sleep, TV, partner etc.
It also depends on whether you need to be available to outside clients etc in normal working hours. Other candidates for the job would have an advantage if they were able to just work the normal hours.

You pay for child care.... as does everyone else on much lower salaries than that

Lots of people have found Mumsnet as a really civilised place to discuss life! Many topics on the AIBU are from men or women of all ages & walks of life! If interacting with people that aren't parents is a violation to your rights then you have serious issues! Nobody is monster or unsafe because they haven't got kids so drop the offensive attitude please! You didn't become the only person of importance or only valid opinion because you had a kid! There's plenty of topics of discussion on here that are people without kids and the topic isn't about kids! Maybe this site isn't the place for you if you feel people without children are beneath you!

I doubt the expectation is that she parents while working in the evening - probably more that she has childcare for those periods too. If they're paying for your time, they're not expecting to pay for you to be looking after your kid at the same time.

It’s really not silly. Lots of companies have removed wfh full time because of a few people taking the piss

Why are you on mumsnet if you’re not a mum? This is a violation of mums rights !!

They make signed statements monthly, which are provided to the employer.

Wow what is the job? Would love to work until 3.30 for 75k

This is the same with my work. I WFH but childcare for up to end of primary school age is required and evidence that I'm actually using childcare is also required.

I agree with it.

@Yudl split lunch break. 30 mins at lunchtime and 30 mins for school run?

I get it OP. I would have suggested stopping work completely to pick up and spend time with your child, then log on for a couple of hours later.

I’m in the running for a job which pays very well, but will want me in the office every day. The compromise on flexibility I plan to ask for is to be in the office core hours (10am-4pm), then log on for another couple of hours in the evening. Mainly so I can take my DC to school, and spend time with them until bedtime. I would not suggest working with my DC (primary school age!) around and awake, so I’m not surprised your employer said no.