Nigel Farage

Why does anyone have to explain how they voted and the reasons for their choice?

Just another:

If you can’t disprove what I say, it proves I am correct.

Thread.

That's not a bad idea, even if it would be pretty easy to find out which party the candidate stood for.

That only one of two parties are likely to get in is the outcome. But it wasn't designed that way. On the contrary, the idea was that each constituency voted for whichever individual seemed most likely to represent them - 'them' being people who live in the constituency. Parliamentary parties weren't considered.

Nowadays, actually, people vote not for the person who is going to represent them, but for the party to which that person belongs - regardless of the individual usually. And that's why we end up with a two-party system.

I think it would be a good idea not to have the candidate's party on the ballot paper - just their name. Then voters would have to find out about the person rather than just tick the colour they like.

You've lost me a bit there

What I do find interesting is this rejection of the thoughts of the population by a small percentage.

if you were in a family of say 5 people, all sharing a house and someone walked in through your front door as they were homeless, you didn’t know who this person was, what motive they had, what crimes they had committed, had a different way of living to you, would you ask them to stay? If 4 out of 5 people wanted them to leave would that mean that they should be thrown out and the locks changed?

i was listening to a very articulate woman setting out why liberals/the Left cling so much to their ideologies and will reject anything else, even on the face of common sense and evidence. Why they seek to demonise any one with different views. None of it is about justice, protecting others, it is all about making themselves feel good about themselves - it was a really interesting interview. I’ll see if I can find it later.

Yeah, but those are bad people, thick racist gammons who don't deserve to be listened to.

[sarcasm]

Mass deportations to protect a native workforce can be a hard left policy.

If withdrawing from human rights protections is the only way of doing what the public want on immigration then what choice do Reform have?

Throwing around "far right" accusations" is so self-destructive. I for one think Farage is a disgusting, dishonest corrupt grifter who would do nothing to solve immigration concerns. But we are currently in a position where people like me - never so much as voted Tory in 33 years of voting - are being called hard right for thinking that if the majority want less immigration then we should probably have less immigration.

Are the bad policies though? The Human rights protections have been used repeatedly to stop is deporting people who shouldn’t be here. It’s hard to see how any system is going to be able to cope with processing the amount of people coming here without approval. “Positive discrimination” is a double edged sword and has undoubtedly fed into feelings of resentment.

You views on the above are predicated on a certain world view which many people don’t share.

“I am sure are on the fringes of pushing…”

That’s caged in a lot of speculation, opinion, conjecture.

Whereas Reform have actually and openly called for mass deportations, withdrawal from human rights protections, removal of positive action among other things, all of which are far-right policies.

Labour, SNP, Plaid, Greens, Lib Dems, SultanaCorbyn all have significant woke elements in their parties, and I am sure all are on the fringes of pushing ideas which lean on the racism of BLM.

Which political party in the UK is openly advocating for BLM and implementing BLM driven policies ?

None.

Sorry, if you want to support anti-racism support anti-racism. If you want to support BLM you are an anti-white racist adopting an inherently USA-based world view, which is in itself based on lies about things like the proportion of police shootings involving the death of black men or unarmed black men. BLM involves the re-writing of history to present a deeply dishonest narrative. It is as bad for society as the KKK was, not least because if there is one thing that is going to increase genuine anti-black racism it is anti-white racism.

A few odd BLM supporters have used phrases like “all white people are racist”, but that comes from theories about systemic privilege, not from the movement’s core message.

Positive discrimination is different though, it’s unfair and illegal here in the UK, and I agree it undermines merit. The real goal should be positive action as you said: levelling the playing field so the best person wins the job, whatever their skin colour.

Have you not seen BLM types saying "all white are racist"? How is that not racist? How is positive discrimination not anti-white racism by definition? (Postitive discrimination, not positive action - I support positive action to ensure the best people apply and get the job no matter their skin colour, I oppose positive discrimination - giving the job to an inferior applicant because of their skin colour)

Open borders aren’t “woke”, they’re globalist.

How is BLM “anti-white” ?

Woke doesn’t frame discussion about immigration as inherently racist either - discussion which blames all of society’s problems on foreigners or immigrants is inherently racist - but not simply talking about immigration.

I’m not going to get into transgender stuff here, not the place for that debate.

I live near a migrant hotel and up until now it hasn't been an issue. It is now because of the people demonstrating.

If you are replying to me.

I did not say we had open borders, I said "woke" means open borders. It also means the claim that any discussion of immigration is hard right / fascist / racist by definition (even if the person who wishes to close borders is a literal communist who wants to protect borders solely to protect jobs).

BLM and antifa and woke all go hand in hand. One of the main ways they are an existential problem is that they are driving ordinary people into the hands of a populist called Farage. I don't care how small a minority is - if they are racist, sexist and homophobic they need fighting, and woke are all of those things.

No, telling me to refer to men in dresses as women is nothing to do with preventing insults - it is about trying to redefine reality using the tactics of literal communists.

I do not want North Korea style borders. I want free speech and don't think anyone has a right not to be offended - I do not want the right to insult.

What is the difference between me - someone who believes in free speech, truth, honesty, LGB rights, women's rights, and an end to racism, and a "woke person" in your view?

We don’t have “open borders”

BLM & TQ+ are such small minorities that it’s a bit irrational to be existentially frightened to the point of wanting to remove third-party protections of our own human rights.

And the language “control” simply means we don’t call minority groups insulting terms.

What I’m hearing is that you want to have North Korea style borders, and want to be allowed to use slurs and discriminate against minority groups, and if you can’t have that you’re going to blame something you call “woke” - an all-encompassing and fluid term which acts as a proxy for everything you don’t like.

Woke means open borders, the anti-white racism of BLM, the misogyny and homophobia of TQ+ ideology. Woke means authoritarianism in the form of language control and social shaming.

Woke means pretending to be ultra-progressive whilst being very regressive and bigoted.

100%.

I think that popular and populist are different things. Farage is popular NOW because the majority of the population want a more effective immigration system with fewer immigrants, and they want a better standard of living, and they hate wokism and the Tories which rules out voting Tory, Labour, Green, SNP, Plaid Cymru or lib dem.

I can't imagine ever voting for him because in power he would show his populist colours. Populism is about gaining support and power by telling people what they want to hear. If he gains power he will show himself to be incompetent, corrupt and in the pockets of the rich and Trump. He will not increase living standards and he probably won't succeed in controlling immigration either,

Not a wildly useful counterpoint but thanks for taking the time to respond I guess.

Did someone say unwashed & unemployed ?

It.s not a question of being "that brave" it's a question of people not wanting to waste their time with those who just want to start an argument.

Likewise the noisy far-left influence of the unwashed, unemployed Antifa protesters with their shiny new posters, bankrolled by well-known far left organisations,