To have not known kids have to attain grade 4 in maths?

@Mangala13 if you read the thread, difficulty retaining information has been discussed. Often the reason can relate to SEN.

are you alright? every child is different. some children excel in memorisation some in critical thinking which is infact a better indicator of intelligence….. some kids have upto 25 exams to do when it comes to gcses and remembering all the formulas for not only math but also physics and chemistry is a hell of a lot. why is that? have you even got kids or ever been a teacher?

What sort of a question is that? Maybe because different people’s brains memorise and process things differently. Why is it that some people are better than others at all sorts of things? What a stupid bloody post.

Why is that?

Some of the most clever “on paper” people I’ve known in life (who knows, maybe in future also some of the brainiac offspring of this threads sneery posters?) are those who don’t have a fucking clue how to manage their finances, how a mortgage works or what an APR is.

For most of us the stuff GCSEs test is stuff we’ll never use again.

So once she completes her GCSEs she will presumably either stay in education or do an apprenticeship both of which requires a 4 or above in maths.after that it would only be an issue if a job requires it.

my daughter sat the cambridge igcses which are known to be for the asian market and difficult. we looked at an edexcel exam and it didn’t compare at all but she had no choice being in an international school.
she managed to scrape a c. (cambridge still use the old style grades)
she’s gone on to get an A in A level physics which is mostly maths.

@perpetualplatespinning ah that's interesting. I think she'd applied to do a level 2, but the college said she could do a level 3, but had to do the English GCSE resit

@PennywisePoundFoolish some colleges and sixth forms will make students resit if they get a 4 in Literature but not in Language. However, that isn’t the condition of funding rules. If you look at the link I posted early in the thread you can see the conditions are met if a student gets a 4 in literature but not in language.

What I didn't realise is it has to be a 4 in English Language. My friend's daughter got a 6 in Literature, but a 3 in Language. She went on to do a Btec at college and had to resit English Language. She did get a 4

My eldest has an EHCP and got 3s in English and Maths. No GCSE resits, working towards an accredited English course. Nothing for maths though

easy enough to memorise.

Except for some DC it isn’t ‘easy enough’.

I agree.

It's "attitude" problems that are causing the shortages in manual work, trades, etc., where people think that "dirty" work is beneath their little Tabitha or Justin so almost force them into university instead to do a degree they're not interested in and won't lead to a "good" job.

Nothing wrong with working in supermarkets, fast food places, etc as they usually have good prospects for those wanting to develop themselves.

There's nothing wrong with working at Aldi - Dmum worked at a supermarket don't think she aspired to it but it fitted around her other commitments and brought needed money in.

Quiet a few of the people DH went to school with started at shop floor and slowly worked up into management or sideways into logistics/warehouse/other areas- there's few jobs or industry left round his way.

I was taken a back though when HT spoke to DD2 on track for good GCSE planning A-levels already thinking about degree - there's only a very few specialised degrees most set up by indurstry - and some chemisty/material science degrees - she could then take it in various directions mostly like R&D or technical side of manfactoring. I knew someone in this area she said she spent a lot of time looking round chinese factories - she got a degree as a mature student but earned well.

Head teacher suggested she could work in a shop - when DD2 told me I said well yes R&D and manufacturing that's one area that will likely need those skills - no mum she said I could serve customers in a clothes shop. I mean I was very WTF.

The snootery on this discussion is staggering! Yes, lots of people aspire to a solid regular job in retail, hopefully a bit above NMW, to pay the bills or as a step into a retail career. Including people who struggled at school. If they didn't, there would be empty shelves in supermarkets. If you are unemployed you aspire to work anywhere.

Well we cant all be civil engineers and architects,can we 🙄
Theee is nothing wrong with working at Aldi

@CatHairEveryWhereNow

I can't think of one workplace I needed to maths or writing that I didn't have some access to calculator or computer with relevant software on. If you do get though the hoops at all these levels and then all strife and struggle just goes.

I fully agree. I've worked in accountancy for over 40 years and even back in the 80s when I started, we were using calculators, computers, etc. with very little need for mental arithmetic, etc. It's funny when I tell people socially I'm an accountant and they immediately assume I'm some kind of maths genius - nothing can be further from the truth - I'm numerate but that's it! When my son was at school, I could help him up to GCSE level, but completely lost when he was doing A level Maths, and when he was doing his Maths degree, it was like a different language! And that's despite me getting A level in Maths back in the day myself - I just about scraped the minimum grade I needed to train to be a chartered accountant!

At one point they actually had a really good graduate scheme.

Nothing wrong with working there.

It's close to thier home, the shifts fit with their family, they enjoy that type of work, it fits thier skill set, there are opportunities for progression. An assistant store manager earns well enough for instance.

Why would someone aspire to work at Aldi?

My 80s primary it was all look and say. I do think phonics teaching would have helped in that it would have been another tool in the kit.

Having said that my DC all had nursury, early school years and home doing phonics - and still needed considerable help with reading and spelling - the spelling was phonics, word groups and a lot of over learning - they came out much better spellers than me at same age but still weaker than expected for their level.

Fingers crossed for your DD though - DN was at 3/4 border two years ago and she on the day scrapped a 4 so could go straight to level 3 course - she got 9 in Art and 8 in photography - and that's area she's pursuing.

DD1 struggled though A-levels underprerfoming to expectations - she was covid years so missed GCSE exams and in retrospect we should probably have looked more at Btec options - but she got into uni - finally got diagnosed with exactly same profile as me - and her course is 100% course work and she gets support software - so most of her issues are gone and she's doing really well.

I can't think of one workplace I needed to maths or writing that I didn't have some access to calculator or computer with relevant software on. If you do get though the hoops at all these levels and then all strife and struggle just goes.

Right but someone working in Aldi for example and I think thst is a perfectly respectable job BTW, is going ti do just fine with basic numeracy

What proportion of school leavers become civil engineers and architects?

Why teach and examine something that only a tiny proportion of people will ever need and effectively "write them off" if they can't do such things, despite them being unlikely to ever need such things??

Surely for more specialist professions etc., the more complex things should be taught at higher levels, i.e. A level, degree level, or professional exam level?

Just googled it, approx 150k civil engineers and architects working in the UK out of a total working population of about 35-40 million!

There are nearly a million accountants/book-keepers working in the UK, but schools aren't teaching double entry book-keeping!

If it was just one "fact" then yes, easily memorised, but it's not. They've got to learn huge numbers of things in schools, not just Maths, but English, Sciences, humanities, languages, etc etc. Some people have better memories than others. Some people forget things quicker than others.

Not helped that in, say, Maths, a pupil may remember the angles in triangles and quads, but then it's months before they're required again, by which time they've forgotten and have to re-learn.

But why do we even need to "learn" them. Why not have "crib sheets" like formula sheets in Maths exams? Having to learn random things and then having to them is two different skills. Kids with poor memories may well be good at application of skills, critical thinking, analysis, etc., but can't demonstrate those skills because they're held back by poor memory!

I'd rather we taught skills, like how to work out the angles once you've been told they add up to 360 or 180 which is far more accessible for pupils with poor memories or who have too much to learn if they're doing say languages alongside.

But how often day life are you using it ?
I'm 51 and whilst I use basic mental arithmetic everyday that I was taught at primary school, I have never had a need to calculate angles since I left school

Angles in a quadrilateral shape add up to 360°. Something that can be easily memorised. Also the formula is easy is enough to memorise.

Same with the volume of a pyramid. The formula is easy enough to memorise. And then it's just rinse and repeat.