To have not known kids have to attain grade 4 in maths?

Sorry, but saying 'a cold day in hell when you 'let' you child leave secondary' is somewhat implying that parents whose children don't pass haven't put enough effort in to helping / encouraging / enforcing or whatever. You can have all the aspirations you want, but sometimes it still isn't enough.

I'm really not sure that's true. Can you link? I've just googled and it's 40-60% apparently.

Yes but a 1/3 will still fail. Many parents try and offer support and tutoring by the system is still designed to have that number fail.

I didn’t know that about the different pass rates - thanks! I was utterly stunned when DD got 19% in an end of year exam (Yr 8, I think) and we were told that was a pass.

Utterly mad that the system is set up for a third to fail.

We didn't know this until DS started college with a 3 in English. To continue in education yes they must keep attempting to pass the one they didn't get. The college literally doesn't get funding for that YP unless they are also studying the Maths or English retake. They don't have to PASS it, but they have to keep doing the lessons.

There is a scale of resits: if they just miss a 4 by getting a 3 they have to resit GCSE, if they get a 2 or less they can do Functional Skills (GCSE 4 equivalent).

There are lots of reasons not all students get a pass mark: for a start, the grade boundaries guarantee a percentage will fail. It can be to do with exam technique / anxiety or dysgraphia rather than not being able to read at all. The GCSE exam content is quite advanced/abstract, functional skills is more relatable. DS can read and write extremely well but for his first few GCSE resits he had panic attacks and wrote nothing, and then got a 3 again in the last attempt 😟.

The age 25 might be for students with an EHCP, otherwise it's 19 after which they are eligible for adult education courses if they want to.

Not entirely true. Up to when they leave college / school in the July after they turn 18, but there is a lot of funding for them to have another go if they haven’t yet passed. Not having it closed the door to so many jobs that it’s important to offer that.

One does have SEN, nothing wrong with having aspirations, you dont need to look for offense.

I will let you know, but my eldest is no issue as he’s top set and wanting to do at A Level. My youngest is SEN and struggles with maths, which is why we’ve done lots of extra support for maths (SATs this week), and it’ll be no different in high school.

@HowDoesThatLook totally agree. My brother has mild learning difficulties and would never pass either English or Maths exams. However, he can still be a productive member of society doing those jobs lots of mumsnetters would probably sneer at, but society still needs, whether it's as a dishwasher in a pub, collecting trolleys in a supermarket or stacking shelves.

It not compulsory to keep re-taking them at all.
However if a teen wants to do a college course or an apprenticeship they (the college /employer) may insist on English and Maths being done along side their other subjects/qualifications.
If they aren't doing college/6th form/apprenticeship then they don't have to look at a GCSE Maths or English exam ever again in their life if they don't want to.

How exactly it is often not quite as straightforward as getting them to revise. Sometimes brains understand both English and maths and sometimes just one.

When I did exams we had a girl with SEN who was amazing at the English and social sciences side - on course to get good grades in her a levels she just couldn’t pass maths.

because remember there isn’t a pass mark per se it is bell curved and a certain percentage fail

that percentage around 30% Maths and 30% English

that said functional skills is a valid alternative it’s just getting whatever establishment to agree to the move from gcse to functional skills (which won’t be a sixth form attached to a school) and is harder than it should be to move - that does have a standardised pass mar

Yes, exactly.

It wasn’t my plan for DS to be autistic and not be able to attend secondary school, but that’s what happened. I’m really proud of him for resitting later this year.

It's MUCH higher than that ... in 2024 it was 59.6% to get grade 4

Oh the privilege of having academically average or above children is strong on this thread!

One of my children finds school straightforward. One of my children has learning needs. They both try their best but one of children may not pass their English and Maths GCSEs. It won’t be for lack of effort on theirs or the schools part. It’s just that learning is really hard for them in an academic context.

I think they decide to continue with the lessons and exams when they realise they are viewed as unemployable by hirers.

Lets hope your children don't have SEN, or don't suffer with MH problems in their GCSE years then.

I didn't 'let' my younger one leave secondary school without her GCSEs, circumstances intervened.

That isn't pass rate, that is sometimes the pass percentage on the higher tier paper. To pass the foundation tier you need 55-60% or so.

GCSEs are marked so about 1/3rd will fail Math/Eng Lang.

As part of the conditions of funding those aged 16-18 (and 19-25 if they have an EHCP) who do not have at least a grade 4 GCSE (or one of the accepted equivalents) in Maths &/or English must continue to study Maths &/or English as part of their programme of study. Those who get a grade 3 are expected to work towards GCSE. Those who get below a grade 3 can work towards functional skills instead. There are a few exceptions. You can read more here.

My eldest son finally passed after 3 attempts at college to get his GCSE grade 4 maths......he only missed out by one point on the last attempt.

There is no compulsory education after the age of 19. How on earth could adults aged 19-25 be coerced into taking maths lessons and exams every year in a free society? You need to apply a little bit of critical thinking to outlandish claims like this, OP.

I’m a secondary school parent and had no idea about this but it’ll be a cold day in hell before I let a child of mine leave secondary school without a pass in English and maths, so it’s of no consequence to me tbh.

I didn't know this. I attend every parents evening, read every report and my DC is sitting his GCSEs now. He is predicted higher than a 4 and needs a 7 for A-Levels, I guess what will happen if he doesn't pass has never been discussed as it's not a concern.

You really can’t understand how children with send, medical issues, chaotic home lives etc don’t do well in school? My son works incredibly hard, but struggles badly in tests, always has and will struggle to get a 4 in the exam. He can function perfectly well in the world without being able to do simultaneous equations. There are lots like him out there. You really must live in a weird academic bubble.

Yep it's pretty common knowledge among people who have kids, but I'm pretty sure they only have to keep doing retakes until end of compulsory education age so 18/19. Apparently the pass rate if you don't pass first time is abysmal though so it seems tortuous to just keep making them retake over and over knowing most will never pass

That would be my worst nightmare I hate maths, bot site what my grade means now as it was a 3 in Scottish Standards grades in the 90’s ( a C equivalent in old GCSE money). I wasn’t allowed to do the credit paper as I was not going to pass. Had to do spud maths, I’m ok with arithmetic but when the fucking alphabet and demonic symbols enter the chat then I can’t do it I freeze. I also have a fear of the 8 times table.

i now know I have ADHD and that was my main issue. I work in finance now and rely on spreadsheets and macros to assist me. Also to Mrs Magee who liked to scream at me I do have a fucking calculator in my pocket all the time…let me introduce you to the fucking smart phone.