To have not known kids have to attain grade 4 in maths?

By design, 30-40% of students fail. That doesn't mean they didn't get the right score. The pass score is set after all the scores are known. Say one year most students got a score above 65/120, the pass rate gets set at 80/120, so 30-40% fail. It wouldn't matter if the next year 100% of students got a score above 100/120, they would just set the pass mark at, say, 110, so that anyone with a score of 100-110 failed, even though the previous year they would have passed.

There is no way for the bottom 30-40% of scorers to win. They will fail, no matter how well they do.

I honestly think that people that get Maths don't see why its difficult for those who don't get it. Or just can't do it in an exam. Thats why Mathematicians make rubbish Maths teachers... you need someone who gets it, but doesn't find it a walk in a park.

Yes would have to resit as part of 16-18 education. But to 25?? How would that be enforced?

It's got to be disheartening though to retake maths or English GCSEs again and again, to sit through more maths lessons and to keep not getting a 4.

I think the chances of someone not getting a 4 or above if they didn't get it first time are not very high.

I do think though that it should not define you - and I know people who struggled with maths but once they had to use it at work, then they grasped their work maths really well and used it effectively.. Things like doing marketing and looking at response rates, VFM on campaigns etc

Apparently, of those that fail, only 25% will manage to pass at a later attempt.

I tutor maths and some of the people i tutor at 16+ are for foundation maths. They tend to be very quick at the maths that is directly related to their chosen profession. I.e. the lad studying farming very quick at concentration questions or lengths of wood. But recipe questions - no can do. An inability to get a 4 in maths is not the end of the world.

Many people here seem to think that everyone is like them. Literate, numerate and academic. This is simply not the case.

7.1 million people in the UK read at the level of the average 9 year old ( NIHR, 2022).

Is it really that hard to imagine that many people struggle with maths?

I have dyscalculia, unrecognised at school because it wasn't understood as a separate condition at the time, and I was a grade A English student. I got myself diagnosed at 25 after reading an article in a magazine on the subject.

I never got my maths GCSE, despite resits. I feel for your daughter and wish her all the best, but if it's any consolation, all the skills you mentioned, I can do and have done. I just perhaps don't do them the same way that other people do.

I’m exactly the same, I only passed the second time by the skin of my teeth.
When my children ask me for help with maths homework I feel exactly the same level of panic I did when I had to do it in maths class.
They know to go to the Dad for Maths help and me for creative art and English, but you’re right, the feeling of being a bit of a dunce stays with you always especially when other people find it so easy.

So no savings account, no debt, credit cards?

No salary, pay rises, comparing items when buying things?
No value for money?

Knock knock: Open up! It's the police.
Pause
We're here for your 23-year-old son. Someone has reported that he doesn't have his Grade 4 in Maths.

Honestly 😂

Of course it's preferable for your child to get their Maths exam, but the world won't end if they don't. Just like many PP, I have two autistic DC, both requiring special school. Not a hope in hell of either attaining their Maths exam - and not because I don't value education. Qualifications are great, but they're out of reach for some children.

There are many reasons why a child might struggle. Those of you who claim that your child would "never" leave school without this, let's hope you're right. Because you might not be.

Using my maths and previous data, I suspect there is a high probability this will get mentioned again on this thread...

I knew dd would struggle so we got her a tutor for her gcse year.
As the tutor said, ‘dd just needs a pass, she’s never going to bother with maths in adult life.’

Using maths in a real life context is so so useful.
Everyday maths, adding up, subtracting, percentages, ratios, division
And then understanding things like interest rates, debt, VAT, cashflow

And statistics. Data. Understanding what data is showing you - and being able to identify issues with it.

This is what maths should be for most people - and when people actually have to use maths in real life at work and at home, it makes much more sense for people. It makes it real

Not true if they sit foundation level. The pass mark is more like 60%

It’s not compulsory but any decent college will encourage it; and it’s very hard to get a job without Maths and English GCSE or functional skills.

Yes. I know.

Exactly.

Do you think most people should be able to work it out using paper - but with no calculator?

My child is about to resit for the 3rd time..its utterly soul destroying. They can pass the mocks but something goes awry at the actual exam. Confidence declines each time.

Yes, but that’s on a paper where top mark is grade 5.

@CharlieLarlie Simultaneous equations are on the spec for Foundation, but not everything is examined every year.

Good grief. If I believed everything I read on Mumsnet, I might as well have had myself put down by the vet long before I reached the grand old age of 50. Not only can I not drive, I haven't got an equivalent grade 4 in maths GCSE.

The way some of you talk, it's a minor miracle I can get out of bed in the morning.

Some of the comments on this thread are really short-sighted. The first maths exam is on Thursday and I already know my DD will fail. But she used the money from her Saturday job to self fund a nail course and then onto lashes. She set up her own business in January and is already thriving. As 99% of her trade is cash, she’s done all of her finances on a spreadsheet. Excel does most things for you these days. She will excel in life.

Failing maths doesn’t define you.

I recently sat a couple of GCSE foundation papers as my daughter is doing hers this week and she has dyscalculia and really struggles. There were no simultaneous equations on any of the papers. The foundation level (which allows you to get up to a grade 5) is much more basic maths, rather than problem solving, though still not particularly easy. This year they are allowed an equation sheet (hangover from lockdown) which helps massively. There are many reasons why maths is an essential skill in life. Reading timetables, follow recipes, budgeting, understanding discounts etc. all very useful stuff. My daughter is aiming for a 4 and has been scraping that. Most degree courses require at least grade 4 English and Maths.

@cakeorwine but that’s the thing 60% of 240 isn’t a sum everyone can do in their head!