To have not known kids have to attain grade 4 in maths?

If you have ADHD or something and you have 10 other subjects to think of at once, that in itself can be a real challenge and a barrier that can hinder people. It can feel very overwhelming and most schools have 30 kids to a class, so the teacher can’t dedicate time to explaining concepts or moving at the pace of individual learners. Everyone learns differently and some people just can’t take in information in the time frame that maths is taught.

I failed maths at school, resat as an adult and it was much easier because it was a much smaller class and the teacher explained things very well etc. You don’t necessarily need serious SEN to fail your GCSE’s. It’s more shocking that people can’t fathom such scenarios. People just learn differently and at different paces. Sometimes things don’t seem to click at school. I still only got a 5 because I went to pieces sitting the exam, but it’s good enough for me for what I needed it for.

It’s not true.

Please try not to worry. Education is not compulsory post 18, regardless of your grades.

If your DC wants to go to college or complete an apprenticeship, agreeing to complete a maths GCSE or equivalent would probably be a condition of accepting their place.

However, some colleges/apprenticeship providers have students sit functional skills exams instead of a traditional maths GCSE.

The functional skills maths course/exam is very different to a maths GCSE and, with support, many students who found the GCSE impossible are able to pass.

In your shoes, I would help her find a course that interested her and contact different providers to see whether they offer functional skills as an option.

@Ghsvdfyou are so incredibly ignorant. Ever heard of Dyscalculia for example? Some people just don’t get maths. It can be incredibly hard for some people. You are clueless.

Some very ignorant attitudes on this thread. I’ve got older DC at Russell group universities who breezed through their exams without batting an eyelid.
I’ve got a younger DC who due to health issues as a baby has severe difficulties with maths. If he gets a grade 4 at GCSE I’ll be ecstatic.

I've had to take these decisions quite a few times for the borderline kids.

Basically, we look at their November mocks. If they're on higher and getting a 5 they stay on higher. If they're on foundation and getting a 5 then they'd go up to higher to have the chance of improving on that.

If they get a 3 on higher then move to foundation.

If they get a 4 on either then it's a decision as to which paper offers their best chance of bumping that 4 to a 5.

Some kids on a 4 on higher ask to move to foundation as they feel they'd do better on an easier paper. Some want to stay on higher and say they want to work harder and give it their best shot (they feel foundation would be a 'demotion').

Kids who get a good 4 on foundation will be given the opportunity to try higher (bearing in mind they haven't been taught any content higher than a 5 so it'll be tough). Some want to, and some don't.

We then have a second set of mocks in March. If they're still on a 4, and it's a low 4 (or if they flunk completely), we'll say they should go back to foundation. If it's a high 4, we ask them what they want to do.

Would you prefer to do a paper where you started off with what should be relatively easy questions which get harder but doable - but you need to get about 70% on to get a 5?

Or would you prefer a paper that starts off with questions that are quite difficult but not too difficult but get a lot harder, especially the ones near the end, but you only need to get about 35% to get a 5 and you could get a 6?

I guess it's dependent on the pupil doing the exams.

@TheQuirkyPombear Would love to hear what you believe the cut off point is for those kids who take the foundation vs higher paper. Which do you think is best for a borderline child? And how do schools decide? Thanks for any wisdom!

This is not true. I'm a maths resit teacher. It's 19% or even less for a higher paper. Foundation paper which most who struggle at maths take it's more like 63% or higher. It's actually quite hard to get a 4 if you struggle as there isn't much margin for error as lots of students can't tackle the longer worded questions worth 5 marks.

If she's year 7 now, there is a fair chance that her underlying abilities to reason and problem solve will develop substantially over the next few years. Since her dyscalculia is known, I hope that her tutors and teachers will be able to work with you and her to use her strengths to shore up the areas of weakness and maximise her functional outcomes.

But I also hope for your sake, and because I basically agree it would be better, that she will be allowed to prioritise a functional skills maths qualification when the time comes, and let GCSE maths be an optional extra if necessary.

You don’t need formal qualifications in maths to be able to do those kinds of things, though.

DS (who has asd) luckily got a 4 ‘in English, although his teachers said that had his result been based on school work rather than exams he would have scored a hell of a lot higher. We managed to get him special permission to not redo maths, he didn’t pass it, however he actually got ptsd from maths in year 11 due to some incidents with a teacher. We needed to do something as he just wouldn’t go to the maths class at college and it was effecting his attendance so we had to go through some deep Channels. I’d rather teach him maths at home sporadically than have him breakdown in a class. He’s doing his course which his course leader tells me he’s thriving in, he’s actually top of his class and well ahead of everyone else.

I suppose it depends on the school.

If maths is not someone's strong point, then getting a 5 on a Higher paper is probably harder than getting a 5 on a Foundation paper.

Also, of interest it does matter after age 19. In my
professional role, there are senior leadership development opportunities for which as a minimum ….must have a pass in maths and English. Even for the PHD educated. I was a maths failure and a retake failure but have a masters in science. Unbelievable that this level of discrimination is rife

That’s rubbish. My daughter took the higher paper and got a 5 and maths was not a strong point for her

Yes but most kids won't have an EHCP.

I got a 3 @ Standard Grade. Failed the Credit.

In 5th year, they tried to make me do whatever the intermediate level of maths between SG and Higher was called back then.

I sat in class and read Last of the Mohicans instead.

I was warned I wouldn't be able to go into teaching without a credit pass in maths. Which was true enough. But I'm not sure the average parent would have wanted someone as shit and disinterested in maths as me teaching their little darlings anyway. My loss is humanity's gain.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd7dl10p9qno

there is some change ahead. It is unfathomable
for those who have no experience of SEN or ND that a 4 is unobtainable (no matter how much you try and how many times you repeat). Though it really shouldn’t be. It is likely that many of the people that you work or interact daily with are ND. If you find it unfathomable then I suggest you educate yourself further. ND doesn’t equal stupid, just “mind block” in certain areas that others find as easy as breathing.

GCSEs are marked so about 1/3rd will fail Math/Eng Lang.

Not quite: the grade distribution is set like that. Marks are awarded as per the mark schemes and grade boundaries are set to meet the curve that is required.

No examiner is marking to fail students.

I was talking about the twenty percent of 16-65 year olds who read below the level expected for a 10 year old.

Only for two years until she’s 18. Not until she’s 25. It’s not the end of the world.

There's a government consultation going on right now as regards education and quite possibly a lot of the policies now won't be in place by the time your child does GCSEs. The government know the low pass rate for retakes is s an issue for example. In the meantime, I'd advise supporting your child as much as possible, getting extra tuition too if possible and cross fingers the situation will be different in a few years x