To have not known kids have to attain grade 4 in maths?

One of my dc always struggled with mental aspects of maths, also diagnosed with ADHD and struggled with organisation. They got a 3 in year 11, had a tutor at home and retook first year at college. Still got a 3 and when we got the papers to analyse, found they'd only increased their score by 3 marks. So disillusioned they refused to continue to attend maths classes or do the second resit. Quite competent ever since with the everyday aspects of maths - money, time etc.

You're only expected to resit for the next two years after year 11, not till 25. And no one can force you, though college could get stroppy. I'd like my dc to have better qualifications in general but they have had other successes and one day may find a need for maths GCSE which would give them the motivation to succeed this time. Or maybe not.

Personally I was good at maths, and have an A level in it.

Of course it's not true. There are other options like the functional skills maths qualification which is an equivalent to a GCSE pass. Lots of further study and jobs require a pass (4) at GCSE or equivalent but it's on you if you want to retake.

I can't believe the bigotry of some on here. I'm 73 and in my teens I learnt by accident that at the 11-plus I got the highest mark in the whole of my county. I went to an elite secondary school (my parents had never heard of it!) and got a Grade 1 in Maths at age 14. I went on to become an Accountant, and after raising a family I found I was good at teaching so became a Uni lecturer in Accounting subjects.

In my work I have met every possible combination of GCSE levels. A high grade in Maths and English does NOT signify intelligence or even ability. Nor does a low grade indicate that someone is thick. Plenty of intelligent people struggle with certain subjects and Maths is definitely one. My late dad hardly went to school at all but was highly numerate - he learnt through trial and error and common sense. My late mum was highly literate. Dad could barely read, mum was hopeless with numbers. Both held down good jobs, and were superb parents to me.

My best friend when I had kids was a lady who failed Maths O-level. Her 15-year old son also struggled so the pair of them went to evening classes - and both got good passes. Different setting/teacher/level of pressure and in my friend's case a lot of life experience.

I think it's barmy to insist on a particular grade at age 16 in order to progress further. Yes, encourage another try (with appropriate support) but in life there are other ways of achieving what is needed to get along just fine.

A little story. A woman I worked with had superb results from her private school and became an Accountant. Her sister got v good results from her state Grammar School and became a teacher. Their little brother went to a Secondary Modern school and left with few qualifications. In the early 1980s he spotted that ordinary people were turning to drinking wine more frequently than in earlier years. He became a wine importer and a millionaire to boot.

NEVER let your child (or yourselves) consider yourselves thick because of some inability to perform at a certain level set by others. There's more to a person that their Maths grade. As said, I was a wizard at Maths but have barely used 90% of what I learnt then and don't even remember most of it.

I am biased of course but my DGD is SEN (her brother not so) but heck she is bright as a button when it comes to soaking up information like a sponge. Her vocabulary is phenomenal (but she can't spell half the words) and she has an insatiable desire for knowledge. Her school essays are full of imagination and factual stuff - just badly spelt and punctuated. She'll go far in life - as I hope many others will. Confidence is a big help, whatever grades you do or don't achieve.

Yes it was the same when I was at school over 20 years ago. I remember there was a small group at college who studied for a maths resit. Didn't think much of it but that will be why.

Seems like he probably didn’t get his intelligence from you then.

You'll get all the usual suspects replying to this who will insist that only a top 10 university will do

On the plus side, it will be an especially 'cold day in Hell' if her poor children send her so much as a birthday card in 10yrs...

Same! 😂

About as hard as it for you to see that everyone has different strengths. Oh, and the results that year were phenomenal - just like they always are when a new assessment method is rolled out. I’m not sure the correlating A levels were as good though…

What a thoughtless and unkind thing to say. Do you think the parents of the unsupported dyscalculic or dyslexic children just ‘let them’ not achieve? I’m not sure whether it’s you or an equally odious poster on this thread should win ‘human of the year’. Have a word with yourself.

I went to a RG ( completely meaningless) university.

So did I.

RG was so meaningless to me that I didn’t actually realise I’d gone to one before I started seeing all the angst on MN!

I’m hoping it stays fine for a lot of you, especially the ‘cold day in hell’ poster. Students can be bright, articulate and functional in the world, but our very broken education system measures them by a no longer fit for purpose couple of subjects. Of course they should have the opportunity to re-sit, but forcing an otherwise able young person to re-sit maths when they have proven they were unable to the first time, is an unrealistic stress. Functional skills are less readily available than people think, although much more suitable for many. GCSE maths proves little about numeracy in day to day life. Further education colleges are full of young people forging ahead and having to resit, and for the smug pearl clutchers, don’t kid yourselves that decent sixth form colleges don’t have resit classes too - something they didn’t bother with before the changes to conditions of funding.

Going to an RG university means absolutely nothing.

Start a thread with this as the title, I dare you 🔥

I went to a RG ( completely meaningless) university.

Lots and lots of people do. Mostly with fairly decent - but not exceptional - grades. Like me!

My GCSEs weren't ever mentioned. It's not like they count towards UCAS points!

Good job. Because I had to retake Maths to scrape a C.

There's clearly a separate Mumsnet admissions procedure where getting into a 'Russell Group' university (such as the UK's largest university, Manchester) requires additional steps.

Like three As at A level. And 12 GCSEs - including Latin - also at A.

But didn't quite scrape Oxbridge.

Bless!

My degree has served me well in that it got my foot through a door to my career.

No one's ever given a shiny shit about my GCSE results or which university I went to.

I've just worked hard and kept learning.

I'm a mediocre person with a mediocre degree in a job I love and am good at.

My eventual narrowly scraped pass in GCSE maths hasn't informed my life at all.

And anyone saying it relates to budgeting and daily tasks is not up to speed.

Life really, really is very short.

Going to an RG university means absolutely nothing.

This is Mumsnet. Everyone on here has children who are apparently geniuses, who have never knew a grade 7 even existed and only ever go to Russell Group Universities!

This just isn't true. I'm sorry. But it isn't.

If you want go on to A levels or other level 3 study, it's likely you will need passes in Maths and English to progress to that stage.

Likely. But not always default.

My youngest is doing a level 3 next year which specifies a relatively high grade in two specific subjects and three more at 4 plus.

It doesn't require Maths.

Eldest and I got decent Russell Group degrees. We weren't asked for GCSE grades post Yr12.

To me the issue is that entry level jobs typically stipulate a pass in both English and Maths.

These are jobs that people who are for whatever reason more academically able don't want to begin with.

I have two very bright and personable step sons who have SEN and are adopted because of early years neglect and trauma.

They are articulate and probably better at the real life application of mathematics than me or my kids.

They are the young people who have been told endlessly they need to retake before they can progress.

They haven't passed on retake because it is genuinely traumatic and demoralising for them to be deemed second class. It's really, really tough for anyone to be treated pejoratively like that because of things they can't control.

They would probably do very well with a functional skills course.

They'll have access to adult learning in a few years and they'd fly at that.

When a grade 4 in Jasprit having 17 oranges, giving three to Tania, six to Ben and just one quarter to Isla doesn't preclude them earning a living and taking pride in what they do and who they are.

This isn't a level playing field. It's a bumpy one. Where the most vulnerable and already let down are most likely to fall through the cracks.

The system is deeply flawed. And discriminatory.

As is any parent so controlling that they'd force an individual into a course of study under duress or pressure. Demanding a pass through bullying.

"I'd never let a child of mine leave school without a grade 4 in Maths! Over my dead body!"

That's cruel and inhumane.

It's a farce. Ds is 18. He's finishing his level 3 plumbing and he still has to take his maths because he has missed a 4 by 2 or 2, or even 1 mark each resit. Yet he is gaining 90 plus percent in his hot water systems exams, able to work out the plumbing maths in his head. But we he's still panicking that this might stop him working, even though his tutors assure him he is an excellent student and a prime candidate gor highler level apprenticeship.

No wonder kids give up. It's soul destroying, and I say that as a teacher.

I wonder what the probability is of some of these comments on here being genuine whilst others must be made up as surely no one can be ignorant about the fact that people can struggle with maths and that some people can get a lower grade than 7.

I know, but that doesn't stop a similar kind of exam being used, not the 11+ itself.

We did the big experiment in teacher assessed grades during covid, remember? It's a terrible way to assess pupils!

Again. Simultaneous equations are on the syllabus for Foundation, along with trig, pythagoras, vectors and other 'non basic' maths. If you can't do any of these then you have to be certain to be able to not make any mistakes on the rest of the paper.

You wouldn't need to do simultaneous equations to get a level 4.

I was helping a friend's daughter with some Foundation maths questions today and can honestly say I struggled with the wording of some of the 5 mark questions. I used to work as a financial journalist, so consider myself both literate and numerate! I don't think that someone who can't pass that paper is necessarily unprepared for life.
In fact, given the importance of Maths and English skills to life, exams seem an inappropriately impractical way of testing them. I'd imagine it matters more to an employer if you can actually use maths than if you can remember it in the bizarre and unrealistic setting of an exam.
Teacher assessed grades would surely be a much better way of deciding who passes and fails these subjects, with exams and option for students who disagree with their teacher's assessment or who require proof of a higher level of competency than a pass offers.

Up to age 18, not age 25, whether at college, a job or in an apprenticeship. Same for English language too, need at least a 4.