Page 5 | Dad using individual ladies loo to change baby – what’s the etiquette?

horchatatresleches · 2025-05-12T16:36:10+00:00

We were at a small cafe we hadn’t visited before – just me, DH, and our baby DS. When DS needed changing, DH went to check the facilities but came back quickly saying the baby change was in the ladies so I changed him but it got me wondering about what is the etiquette. The setup was one of those where the mens and women loos are both single-occupancy, self-contained rooms that open off the same hallway – not communal spaces with stalls. So it’s not like he’d be walking into a room with other women inside and making anyone uncomfortable. I’ve been to similar cafes where both loos are labelled gender-neutral, which seems simpler. Personally, I wouldn’t bat an eye if I saw a dad coming out of that kind of loo with a baby, but DH felt uncomfortable using the ladies even though there was no one else around. He wasn’t sure what he’d have done if I hadn’t been there to help. Is there an etiquette about dads using the ladies in this kind of setup if that’s where the baby change is? YANBU - he’s fine to use the baby change YABU - he shouldn’t go in the ladies there

aster10 · 13/05/2025 07:16

TheIceBear · 13/05/2025 05:01

What about little boys should they be made to avoid women’s changing rooms in case they see women naked for the same reason ? Or be protected from grown men peeing as well as? Men pee it’s a fact of life. Everyone pees.
adult men shouldn’t be in a women’s toilet full stop.

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The fundamental difference between men’s and women’s toilets is that a part of men’s toilets are open plan (urinals), whereas women’s toilets are all individual closed-off cubicles. This is the reason for my view. I think sometimes you see men’s toilets that only have cubicles, and in this case I would of course send my husband with the twins to the men’s toilet.

Ddakji · 13/05/2025 06:55

Morning all. I would like to apologise to @rainbowunicorn and @Catapultaway for being so rude to them yesterday - I charged in like a bull in a china shop, not reading what I was replying to properly, made a fool of myself, as they rightly pointed out, and was unjustifiably rude to them both.
I’m truly sorry, both of you.

SnugMintFawn · 13/05/2025 06:39

RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie · 12/05/2025 19:04

It’s a single, self contained loo with a baby change. It really, really doesn’t matter if a man goes in it to change his child. It also wouldn’t matter a jot if he went in for a wee if the other was engaged. It’s just a toilet. You’re banging the drum for female spaces so loud, you’ve forgotten to listen to common sense here.

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You’re banging the drum for female spaces so loud, you’ve forgotten to listen to common sense here.

This! 👏👏👏

ProudAS · 13/05/2025 06:38

The toilets are single occupancy. They should be unisex.

Finallydoingit24 · 13/05/2025 06:20

It’s single occupancy. It’s not a “female space” because there will only be one person in at a time. People need to get a grip and some perspective.

TheIceBear · 13/05/2025 05:01

aster10 · 12/05/2025 22:02

It’s not a great situation and there will of course be different opinions, very valid arguments for and against.

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What about little boys should they be made to avoid women’s changing rooms in case they see women naked for the same reason ? Or be protected from grown men peeing as well as? Men pee it’s a fact of life. Everyone pees.
adult men shouldn’t be in a women’s toilet full stop.

Original poster

horchatatresleches · 13/05/2025 04:31

What was assigned to be the men’s loo was tiny. DH said it was one of those rooms where he felt like both his shoulders were touching a wall and his knees were against a door. Probably exaggerating there, but it was a tiny cafe and the change table barely fit in the womens. The only option this cafe has realistically (because significant building work to add an extra change table isn’t what I’d spend my money on as a small business owner) is to change the signs on the door. Either just the women’s (to make it ladies toilet and unisex baby change), swapping the current signs over so the baby change is in the men’s (which transfers the problem of the baby change being in an inaccessible space to women), or to have them both be gender neutral. I think @TempestTost is right that the owner probably just bought the men’s and women’s signs without much thought.

But while some people think that DH should campaign for this cafe to change that, it feels like a minor change to me, and some people on here wouldn’t that as a removal of women’s spaces.

OP posts:

Missey85 · 13/05/2025 04:17

Walkden · 12/05/2025 18:53

" If men hadn't been invading female spaces illegally for so long I would have zero issue with OP sitting enjoying her food while the dad changed the nappy in the ladies, but right now it's a touchy situation."

Come off it. Women have invaded men's toilets in bars pubs clubs etc whenever the queue for the ladies was too long for decades.

In this case it is a single occupancy room and should probably be marked unisex which the interim guidance makes clear is perfectly reasonable. Plenty of cafes only have 1 unisex cubicle full stop.

Gotta love the feminist idiots 😆 tangling themselves in knots to make everything a issue when it's not!

Missey85 · 13/05/2025 04:07

Of course he can change his daughter on the change table 😆 that's what it's for! Oh he has a Penis so is automatically a rapist pervert I forgot! 🤷

RawBloomers · 13/05/2025 02:38

AnSolas · 13/05/2025 02:28

2 toilets :

1 unit for ;
male able body

1 unit for:
wheelchair access for males and
wheelchair access for females and
female able body and
baby change

1 male with baby goes where?

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Covered in previous response to you, but If you are really struggling over this, I suggest this whole conversation is a bit beyond you.

hereismydog · 13/05/2025 02:37

I just thought of something else…

I flew from Gatwick last week, travelling alone with my baby and was desperate for a wee whilst in the airport. Couldn’t take him into the ladies’ because the pram wouldn’t fit in the cubicle and I had no business using the accessible toilet, but the absolutely massive baby changing room had no toilet in it! It had an armchair but no actual toilet.

My options were:

• Leave my baby and pram with a stranger
• Carefully piss into a nappy!

I’ll let you guess what I chose to do…

RawBloomers · 13/05/2025 02:34

TempestTost · 13/05/2025 00:26

They really don't cost that much though, it's not much of an economy.

In any case, if they have a reasonable trash bin with a lid that will work too in a single occupancy toilet.

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I’m not saying it’s what I’d do, just that for small businesses I’ve known, this would be a common line of thought. So I assume that’s fairly common where this happens.

Walkden · 13/05/2025 02:31

*Men get a WC all to themselves, disabled people have to share with women and parents."

According to some posters on here this is justified.

Their argument is that The disabled toilets will have to sanitary bin which the so not having a separate women's toilet or unisex cubicle which would need another , saves money

AnSolas · 13/05/2025 02:28

RawBloomers · 13/05/2025 01:49

The safety issue for a single room toilet exists whether you label it women's or women's/disabled/baby change. No one should be coming in behind you, and you are just as vulnerable if there is a man near by regardless of the sign on the door.

Not sure why you think there is an issue with a toilet being baby free rather than with how much demand there is for the room and so how much you can access it.

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2 toilets :

1 unit for ;
male able body

1 unit for:
wheelchair access for males and
wheelchair access for females and
female able body and
baby change

1 male with baby goes where?

RawBloomers · 13/05/2025 01:49

AnSolas · 13/05/2025 01:33

And you missed that able body males somehow end up getting to have their own baby free toilet.

Separation of the sex in a service stations or other areas which have toilet provision in an isolated area is as much for safety any anything else. Few women would feel safe entering a lockable room with a random male stranger behing her.

And if the objective was that both sex had the same average wait the provision for women would be double that of men and disabled men would be in the same Q as able men.

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The safety issue for a single room toilet exists whether you label it women's or women's/disabled/baby change. No one should be coming in behind you, and you are just as vulnerable if there is a man near by regardless of the sign on the door.

Not sure why you think there is an issue with a toilet being baby free rather than with how much demand there is for the room and so how much you can access it.

Renabrook · 13/05/2025 01:37

I would have no issues with him changing a baby in there

AnSolas · 13/05/2025 01:33

RawBloomers · 13/05/2025 01:13

It's not sexist to have differing provision geared to the make up of your clientele. The aim should be that men and women have to wait roughly the same amount of time on average.

The baby change thing is sexist if the loo is supposed to be a single sex space, but my reading of the description was that it was a single room that was for the use of women, disabled people of either sex or anyone needing to change a baby.

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And you missed that able body males somehow end up getting to have their own baby free toilet.

Separation of the sex in a service stations or other areas which have toilet provision in an isolated area is as much for safety any anything else. Few women would feel safe entering a lockable room with a random male stranger behing her.

And if the objective was that both sex had the same average wait the provision for women would be double that of men and disabled men would be in the same Q as able men.

AnSolas · 13/05/2025 01:15

emma1320 · 13/05/2025 00:40

My brothers wife died 5 days after baby was born leaving my brother as a single parent. In these situations he has no choice but to use the baby change in the ladies toilet.
Posters suggesting he goes somewhere that accommodates baby change in unisex or male toilets clearly haven't been in his situation. Is he never allowed to go to a new/unknown place again?

Or the social context of not having a baby change in the mens needs to change?

If men need to change the baby they are responsible for they should not need to enter into a womans space because babies are nolonger the sole domain of women?

Most adult males have children and yet the building regs and building design model is a able body male will not need to use the toilet with a baby in tow.

RawBloomers · 13/05/2025 01:13

AnSolas · 13/05/2025 00:19

Sexist is it not?

The same assumption applies that men will not be in charge of the baby.

If the company want to save on space they continue to give able bodied men their own toilet and push women and babies and the men and women who need the transfer bars into a single Q.

And then there are all the posters who dont see the underlying everyday sexism in having a baby free mens space is accepting that baby minding and baby changing is women work

Show quote history

It's not sexist to have differing provision geared to the make up of your clientele. The aim should be that men and women have to wait roughly the same amount of time on average.

The baby change thing is sexist if the loo is supposed to be a single sex space, but my reading of the description was that it was a single room that was for the use of women, disabled people of either sex or anyone needing to change a baby.

emma1320 · 13/05/2025 00:40

My brothers wife died 5 days after baby was born leaving my brother as a single parent. In these situations he has no choice but to use the baby change in the ladies toilet.
Posters suggesting he goes somewhere that accommodates baby change in unisex or male toilets clearly haven't been in his situation. Is he never allowed to go to a new/unknown place again?

TempestTost · 13/05/2025 00:31

RawBloomers · 12/05/2025 23:18

Almost app (possibly all) cases of cameras put in women’s loos for voyeuristic purposes have been planted by men.

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Yes, but the fact is that in small places with only one or twoo self contained toilets, it's not really practical to have them differentiated by sex.

What would be your plan for a tiny cafe with only one toilet for men, women, the disabled, and containing a change table? They need to have a whole second toilet for a shop that holds 10 people?

TempestTost · 13/05/2025 00:29

XenoBitch · 12/05/2025 21:57

I find it odd that a small cafe would even have separate loos to start with. Far easier to have a couple of gender neutral loos.

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I suspect that when you see this, it's not really thought through. Someone just orders the little signs and gets one of each kind without thinking about it.

TempestTost · 13/05/2025 00:26

RawBloomers · 12/05/2025 21:56

I would assume this is down to cost. If they have them serviced it just costs more to have two done rather than one. So somewhere thats trying to minimize costs (which most small businesses are) might think this a reasonable economy.

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They really don't cost that much though, it's not much of an economy.

In any case, if they have a reasonable trash bin with a lid that will work too in a single occupancy toilet.

AnSolas · 13/05/2025 00:19

RawBloomers · 12/05/2025 23:29

This may be reasonable depending on their clientele. Commercial drivers, who are more likely to make use of most petrol station toilets than commuters or leisure drivers, are far more likely to be male. Most cafes, on the other hand, are more likely to have women using the toilet and should probably weight use towards them.

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Sexist is it not?

The same assumption applies that men will not be in charge of the baby.

If the company want to save on space they continue to give able bodied men their own toilet and push women and babies and the men and women who need the transfer bars into a single Q.

And then there are all the posters who dont see the underlying everyday sexism in having a baby free mens space is accepting that baby minding and baby changing is women work

BugBugTheTornado · 12/05/2025 23:37

I usually agree with the ‘men shouldn’t be in the ladies’ points, BUT… in the situation of two single enclosed rooms off of one hallway, it’s not really male/female loos is it, it’s just two loos.

I took DD3 into the ‘mens’ on Sunday in this situation, as someone was in the ‘ladies’. We could have waited, but there was an empty room, and she may well have pissed on her feet otherwise (it was a last minute mummy-I-need-a-weeeeeee moment).

I see absolutely no problem with your DH using the ladies in this instance, but would suggest that the best course of action would for the cafe to just have ‘loo’ on both doors and eliminate the entire debate!