Dad using individual ladies loo to change baby – what’s the etiquette?

As it is single occupancy I don't see the issue.

The cafe should put a baby changing table in the men's as well though.

They’re not catered for because they haven’t told business and service providers their needs.

I wasn’t being childish by asking if this conversation is beyond you, I was being facetious. I was actually thinking you were just being an arse about it because you couldn’t back up your assertion, so went with a faux naïveté about where a man with a baby would go to change the baby. But maybe I was wrong. Was that really beyond you? Do you really think that a single occupancy toilet room that is a unisex disable loo, and a women’s loo, somehow can’t be a unisex baby change facility but is restricted to female carers only, leaving men out in the cold? Because if so, that’s just really poor on your part.

The social context at the design stage for the cafe seems most likely to have been “Where can we fit the baby change? Oh, only in the bigger loo. Best make that the women’s then as they are going to need it more.” Which, whilst certainly driven by the context of babies being women’s work, is also grounded in the reality of the society it serves (where far more women than men will be changing a baby in a cafe). If they had instead stuck the men’s label on the bigger loo with the baby change, that would have made more women’s lives harder, in general, and been more sexist. But a different solution would be less sexist.

In the context of the petrol station - I don’t discount the possibility that it could well be sexist provision. I was just pointing out that wasn’t necessarily the case. If it fairly meets demand and men, women and babies all get provision without significantly longer waits than each other, then it isn’t. The baby change isn’t in a single sex space in this case. It’s in a multi-use, single occupancy space.

Oh the irony of you calling someone a 'twat' on the internet and simultaneously fiercely trying to occupy the moral high ground. You're embarrassing yourself here.

Private premises have no obligation to even provide baby changing facilities. They do, however, have a legal obligation to provide single sex spaces for women.

Also, how are 'babies and young children suffering', exactly? Is it because Dad may have to seek out a cafe that's better suited to his needs next time? Rather a luxury notion of suffering, don't you think?

Why is a ladies " safe space" though? There's no women in there while a dad is changing his baby. Tl

I’m confused - it wasn’t your post. 😵‍💫

It was a poorly typed response on my part. I was referencing the obligation to ensure that single sex spaces remain precisely that.

You knew this, however, and just wanted to call someone names on the internet. Go you.

In those circumstances, where the toilets are identical, I use whichever one is free and it annoys me that they put 'male' and 'female' on them. I'd have no issue with a man using a toilet marked 'ladies' to change his baby, as long as there was no risk of a woman being in at the same time.

How did you wash your hands after you’d pissed in a nappy? 🤢

It was a poorly typed response on my part. I was referencing the obligation to ensure that single sex spaces remain precisely that.

You knew this, however, and just wanted to call someone names on the internet. Go you.

No. They don’t have that legal obligation. You’re wrong and you’re making yourself look very silly.

Oh the irony of you calling someone a 'twat' on the internet and simultaneously fiercely trying to occupy the moral high ground. You're embarrassing yourself here.

Private premises have no obligation to even provide baby changing facilities. They do, however, have a legal obligation to provide single sex spaces for women.

Also, how are 'babies and young children suffering', exactly? Is it because Dad may have to seek out a cafe that's better suited to his needs next time? Rather a luxury notion of suffering, don't you think?

FFS - it's not a single, unisex 'loo', though, is it?! It's a female toilet. Therefore, the law dictates that it is for use by women.

Yes, tough shit. Dad doesn't take baby in that particular cafe because the facilities are inadequate to his needs.

Have you never had to make a similar judgement call with your own kids? I certainly have as a mother. Poor / non-existent changing facilities = try a different venue next time. I guess I had no real perception of my own suffering back then - thanks for enlightening me.

My view on this is that men need to get off their arses and campaign for appropriate facilities, as women and other minorities have done. In the meantime they need to change the baby on a park bench or on their laps, the way mothers do when there isn’t a convenient facility, it isn’t rocket science. There is NO reason good enough for a man to use a women’s toilet. It’s a hard boundary for good reason.

This was really gracious. It takes a lot to apologise so nicely.

FFS - it's not a single, unisex 'loo', though, is it?! It's a female toilet. Therefore, the law dictates that it is for use by women.

Yes, tough shit. Dad doesn't take baby in that particular cafe because the facilities are inadequate to his needs.

Have you never had to make a similar judgement call with your own kids? I certainly have as a mother. Poor / non-existent changing facilities = try a different venue next time. I guess I had no real perception of my own suffering back then - thanks for enlightening me.

FFS - it's not a single, unisex 'loo', though, is it?! It's a female toilet. Therefore, the law dictates that it is for use by women.

Yes, tough shit. Dad doesn't take baby in that particular cafe because the facilities are inadequate to his needs.

Have you never had to make a similar judgement call with your own kids? I certainly have as a mother. Poor / non-existent changing facilities = try a different venue next time. I guess I had no real perception of my own suffering back then - thanks for enlightening me.

What is their legal obligation to provide spaces for women please? Are you saying that the thousands of cafes and restaurants around the country who have unisex single occupancy toilets are in breach of the law? What about train companies? Are they also in breach seeing as the single occupancy toilets there are unisex? Planes?
Babies are suffering because there isn’t an adequate space for their nappies to be changed. Are you honestly saying the solution is that dads just shouldn’t go there with their kids? Because that is idiotic.

They do, however, have a legal obligation to provide single sex spaces for women.

I think you’ll find they don’t, hence some cafes only having a single unisex loo.

Oh the irony of you calling someone a 'twat' on the internet and simultaneously fiercely trying to occupy the moral high ground. You're embarrassing yourself here.

Private premises have no obligation to even provide baby changing facilities. They do, however, have a legal obligation to provide single sex spaces for women.

Also, how are 'babies and young children suffering', exactly? Is it because Dad may have to seek out a cafe that's better suited to his needs next time? Rather a luxury notion of suffering, don't you think?

Well then you’re a total twat and it’s babies and young children who suffer as a result attitudes like yours. And nobody has said how men using the baby changing facilities hurts women in any way.