9 yr old told off for calling non-binary teacher Sir

There is a big difference between a child not remembering a teacher's name – which IS their name – and not remembering that the teacher doesn't want to be addressed as someone of the sex that they patently are.

Point is / it’s not hard for a child to remember what to call their teacher. As long as they are not disciplined there is no issue a teacher reminding the children what they want to be called.

My DD has more than once called teachers “mum”

she never gets in trouble for “mis-parenting”

I believe that people are either born male or female - that is the biology of the human nature as we know it. But I believe that gender is a separate issue. I was born female and identify as a female. For me it’s a simple matter. But the same is not for everyone. Trans people know what they are born - biologically the problem is that they don’t see themselves that way.

I think rhetoric such as “no matter what he will always be a he and not a she” is reductive and dismissive. Yes you can argue that biologically that is accurate but humans are more than a collective of atoms - and what we feel and how we identify ourselves is a huge part of who we are. To deny someone the possibility to exist as they wish to exist is cruel and unnecessary.

and for the record - before more comes on this - yes I want woman to be safe but in my opinion to support trans and support women are not mutually exclusive.

I've read the link. It doesn't explain why identifying as a race is different from identifying as a woman. It just asserts they are different. I disagree.

No. Children should not be coerced into denying reality by bullying adults. Totally inappropriate for this teacher to shout at the child for calling him sir.

Your point being?

Absolute madness! I work in a secondary school and have been called 'Sir' before (and Mum!) I just laugh and tell them I must be looking particularly rough today. They're kids, they make mistakes (as do adults).

Well my children called their teachers by their names - and they have several teachers so they need to remember their names.

But you are making an argument that gender is socially constructed.

My argument is that sex is not. It is biologically based.

Do you agree with that? Because the article you posted skirts that issoe to only talk about the social construction of gender. You seemed to agree with that position.

So I'm confused. Is sex socially constructed or not? What do you believe.

You don't need to 'remember' what to call most teachers, because you call them by whichever sex they obviously are. Which is what this child did, but that wasn't acceptable to this particular teacher. Which is a problem.

EDITED as I'm using voice recognition software and it went berserk!

If a child is trying to attract the attention of a teacher then Miss and Sir are the norm, if the child were to be addressing the woman by her name then Ms Smith would be correct if that was what she wanted, it's not rocket science to understand the difference. Maybe you would like the child to say 'Oi, you' to attract attention, nice and gender neutral, no-one could feign upset then.

Because it isn’t. Their silence is answer enough.

Just for clarity - I’m going to bow out of this debate - I keep saying we won’t be able to agree but you keep pushing.

you are conflating 2 things - sex and gender. I can’t speak for the author - only for myself. I am not ignoring sex. Sex and gender are two different things. Biologically there are obviously differences between men and women - there is no denying this. I don’t think trans people are saying I was born biologically a woman/man. At least not the ones I know. But one thing does not preclude the other. You can be biologically a man and your gender be female. Gender is a social construct in my opinion - and to call out a child for any mistake is unconscionable regardless of the issue.

All teachers get called mum dad whatever at some point… we are all on autopilot at times.

forms of address should be polite but can’t be unreasonable / complex.

he a man - sir is fine

he may want something else but sir is reasonable and polite.

i may want to be called “queen of the galaxy supreme ruler of the school canteen and chief of the hockey pitch” but that also will not happen either.

But there you are, simply ignoring sex, which the author also does.

I, for the record, have no issue how people want to express their 'gender identity', they can call themselves whatever they want, dress however they like.

So long as this is not used as some Trojan horse or bait and switch technique to argue that their gender identity should give them access to same sex spaces/services or disrupt other conventions based around sex recognition.

Sex is binary and immutable. This teacher is a man, he'll never be anything else (regardless of how he wants to express his 'gender') and it unconscionable to call out a child for recognising that basic fact.

I have been invigilating in a secondary school with loads of pupils, loads of adults some of whom are teachers, but also support staff, admin staff, invigilators.

Everyone is either "miss" or "sir". I am "miss" even though I am in my 50s. The kids don't know my name and my badge says "invigilator" not my name. How are they supposed to address people in that situation? Excuse me Mrs I don't know your surname? Excuse me Miss Invigilator?

Miss/Sir is shorthand in every school I've ever been in. There is no "non-binary" equivalent.

How ridiculous, should I have got upset everything a child called me miss instead of Mrs? Teachers get called all sorts of names, the teacher needs to just accept, correct and move on

Out of the mouths of babes.

The king is in the altogether.

Etc.

Small boy knows exactly what he's looking at, as do we all, and says so.

A bloke trying to get a child punished for saying it like it is?

Hope she bought her son a treat.

It really goes to the argument that if you believe that race and gender are social constructs or not. And when you start your thought process from there it will lead you to different outcomes in thinking.
you and I won’t agree - I won’t persuade you and you won’t persuade me. And I’m ok with that.

I used to roll my eyes at "Ms". Now, it seems modern and I wonder why women ever felt obliged to disclose their marital status to strangers

I guess the same might happen with "Mx". If I'm eg buying theatre tickets online, why do the theatre need to know whether I'm male or female?

In the past, people thought it unseemly for women to wear trousers. Now, it's no big deal

I see no reason why men couldn't wear skirts if they want

But, non binary / transwomen? I can't get on board with that. You're male or female. End of