Do phalloplasties actually work?

You got that from what I said?

I said that people who think they can change their sex are mentally ill. People who want bigger breasts don't think they can change their sex, hence are not mentally ill.

Many people think cosmetic surgery will do the impossible. Trans people aren't alone on that whatsoever.

Labioplasty for one. Doesn't reroute the urinary system but risks major damage to tissue and nerves in that area. Breast implants. The various body modification procedures one can consent to legally which can involve nullification of the genitalia. The various fillers and things you can have injected into you all have risks. Major risks.

There is no logical basis to being against these surgeries on trans people, but legal and fine for your young adult daughter.

I see absolutely no anti-trans arguments here, only feminist ones.

Whereas your posts are all anti-feminist and pro-men and pro mutilation.

Yes I do think that. And no I don't think that just not liking trans people = feminism. It has to be more than that. I don't see any feminist arguments here. I see anti-trans arguments. A feminist argument would encompass all women. Not just trans people.

So ss long as the deluded person doesn't think they're a man, you don't care what surgeries they have?

Again clearly about hating trans people over worry for the mental and physical health of other humans.

You are talking about different levels of “impossible”. Thinking that a boob job will make you more attractive, and happier, is one thing. Thinking a double mastectomy will turn you into a man is another thing entirely, a material impossibility.

Of course, in either case, the person who undergoes the procedure may or may not feel happier as a result, and may or may not suffer ill effects as a result of the surgery. But neither will change sex, though one might expect to.

The main difference is that the one that thinks they have changed sex (in either direction) now thinks that they are entitled to claim the rights of the opposite sex, which in the case of a transwoman, can impact adversely on women.

The discussions on here fall into three main categories:

• How to preserve and implement the rights of women, and points of law
• How to protect children and vulnerable people from undergoing unnecessary and damaging medical interventions
• Accounts of the harassment and abuse of women and girls, and what can be done to stop it

None of these are “arguments against trans people”.

Many people think cosmetic surgery will do the impossible. Trans people aren't alone on that whatsoever.

No it suggests that your hypocritical arguments against trans people are transparent and weak and you should up your game if you want to have any real impact on this social issue.

Their delusion that the pp was referring to is thinking that this cosmetic surgery will do the impossible, and turn them into someone of the opposite sex, which is of a different order than the expectations of more conventional cosmetic surgery, hence more concerning.

Which ones?

Their delusion that the pp was referring to is thinking that this cosmetic surgery will do the impossible, and turn them into someone of the opposite sex, which is of a different order than the expectations of more conventional cosmetic surgery, hence more concerning.

Just highlighting another manipulative tactic of the activists.

.....stopping trans people from existing....

The language suggests that anyone questioning gender ideology is motivated by bigoted attitudes which lead to genocidal intentions. It's deliberate. You wouldn't want to have something in common with the Nazis, would you?

It's manipulative and childish. Questioning whether radical body modification, which creates lifelong medical patients, is the most effective treatment for the mental health condition gender dysphoria does not make you an advocate for genocide and you should not take anyone who uses this argument seriously.

Many of these surgeries need to do similarly drastic steps to achieve the goal.

So ss long as the deluded person doesn't think they're a man, you don't care what surgeries they have?

Again clearly about hating trans people over worry for the mental and physical health of other humans.

Wow - lot of projection going on in that post. Do you really think feminist women who raise concerns about the many ways the sexist concept of gender identity is harmful to women and children (and also men by the way) are going to be people who are on board with 23-year old having botox? Half of us don't even shave our legs for God's sake 😂

I think this is one you may need to educate yourself about.

Honestly I thought you were genuine at first and agreed you had a point, but the later posts have made it clear you don't care about those girls either, it's just the usual TRA "throw in anything that might work to delegitimise criticism of trans choices"

How can you be so wilfully ignorant? It is a LOT different! It re-routes the urinary system for one.

And wanting to change your looks for beauty reasons are completely different from being so mentally ill that you think you're the opposite sex.

Um.... they don't actually think they're not women.

That's the difference.

I put a link to two metareviews earlier. The second link talks of voiding while standing (i.e. peeing standing) being most successful outcome at 92% . I have pasted it here again and highlighted it for you @StellaAndCrow Am not sure if the rate of complications is higher than other surgeries but again, hard to compare surgeries (And in this case, hard to say what is lifesaving surgery as some trans people will say such a surgery saved their life (or will save it) and I cannot disprove that)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29019859/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2050052122000129
database searching generated 39 final articles, with 19 case series, 3 cross-sectional studies, and 17 retrospective cohort studies. A total of 1731 patients underwent phalloplasty, with the most common type of reconstruction performed being the radial forearm free flap (75.1%). Overall complication rate was high at 76.5%, of which urethral complications were high in all reconstructive subgroups (urethral fistula rate of 34.1% and urethral stricture rate of 25.4%). Postoperative functional outcomes were reported in 57.6% of patients, finding that most had tactile sensation (93.9%) and can void while standing (92.2%). Aesthetic outcomes were only reported in 6.3% of patients, with mean length achieved being 12.26 cm (SD = 0.81 cm) and mean circumference being 10.18 cm (SD = 3.69 cm).

If it doesn't do those things, it's malfunctioning, right?

So is this what these girls are actually looking for? A malfunctioning penis?

Unusually, I agree with Olive on this - in a generalised sense, at least. It's a surgical culture of "Be your best self!" when your best and even your self are fully predicated on how you look - to yourself or others.

Shallow doesn't even come close to what this is: it reduces people to sets of body parts. With older women in the public eye, for instance, you can often identify how they've stopped seeing their own faces and had a blepharoplasty here, a cheek lift there and so on, with no awareness of how the whole face now works as a whole.

Men are increasingly having penis enlargement surgeries, ffs, on perfectly average organs, and six-pack implants.

The physical risks of all these surgeries are quite high, though not as frightening as the 1 in 2 risk of severe complications to GRS. The psychological risks, I would surmise, are at least as high.

It’s no different to breast enlargements or nose jobs or labioplasty or any number of surgeries people have because they dislike how their body looks. Do you protest against those?

Your first paragraph is a very good point, thank you. I still think it would be unfortunate if OP only asks these questions here, as it's not going to give her a range of views. But I do take your point about not invading trans people's space.

I asked the question because I was genuinely curious about the answer. OP might well have come back and said "actually I've also asked in X Y and Z spaces to get a range of views". Or she might have come back and said "I think phalloplasty is awful and actually what I wanted to do was talk about it in a place where I suspect my concerns will be shared". Both valid responses.