Do phalloplasties actually work?

Especially if they are relying on reporting of incidents in areas where laws have been passed that counts those very reports as unlawful discrimination….

Oh. Well. That was a twist wasn't it.

I don't know the proportion of boob jobs that go drastically wrong, but I think if it was three-quarters of them they'd be banned.

It's a valid way of looking at online opinions in research. They wouldn't be collected otherwise.

It takes more than collecting information to make research valid.

They aren't a red herring .Toilets have been the overall focus rather than listing every single area that we don't want men in, women's changing rooms, women's wards, women's sports etc etc.

We just needed the SC to confirm what we all knew so that then rules can be implemented and adhered to.

Also, as I said since 2016 things have changed with trans activists pushing and pushing. You must know that?

That paper has been posted on MN quite a few times. It was never very convincing as it also only looked at reported incidents.

How many threads do we see with women recounting their experiences being exposed to male people masturbating or exposing themselves or abusing them in female single sex spaces who never report?

It was never a strong paper.

I am against it. Because it is only gauging what people who are willing to post comments are saying. I think you have to acknowledge that can be incredibly misleading. Any organisation who treats that as anything other than 'this is what the public who are willing to post comments are saying' would be using weak evidence. Is that what you and your organisation does? Use weak evidence such as this and states that it is 'valid'?

A study looking at allowing men into female spaces finds privacy violations exceedingly rare? How do they define ‘privacy violation’ if a man watching a woman undress doesn’t count?

This is from the USA and it is from 2018.

I would suggest that there are now rather a lot of very publicly known incidents that show this statement, "Additionally, the study finds that reports of privacy and safety violations in public restrooms, locker rooms, and changing rooms are exceedingly rare." to be not true in the USA.

There are no feminists issues that do not require the correct identification of women and girls as a category.

No one who has cosmetic surgery thinks that it makes them a better person or even worse that it makes them a different sex. They like the look, so what?

Not my cup of tea but they aren't pretending to be something else and worse expecting others to go along with it and enabling their delusions.

It's a valid way of looking at online opinions in research. They wouldn't be collected otherwise. You shouldn't be against it. Further studies might include some of your opinions on this site. Wouldn't you want them included to represent women who feel X?

You concluded WRONG! And have been absolutely and comprehensively proven WRONG.

What? Can you read?

"In this section, we describe how we collect comments from online news articles pertaining to the safety and privacy of patrons in female bathrooms, dividing them according to (a) the gender of the user who made the comment, (b) whether or not the comment is a negative comment, and (c) in the case of a negative comment, whether the comment describes a causal or incidental link between transgender females and safety and privacy in female bathrooms (or neither)."

This is an aggregation of public comment and it is not even a poll. It is also not a qualitative research method such as genuine randomly selected focus groups. If this is the type of research that you put stock in, then I would suggest you not as well informed as you say you are.

Women DON'T SPEAK OUT! Therefore the 'official statistics' are false.

You don't think there are any other current feminist issues?

1. And from that same thread courtesy of MissScarletInTheBallroom : "There are many documented examples of women and girls being made to feel afraid, and in some cases much worse, by trans women/girls in female only spaces. The most obvious example is that of Katie Dolatowski, who was convicted of sexually assaulting girls aged 10 and 12 in two separate incidents in women's public toilets. There are also countless examples of trans women masturbating in women's toilets and changing rooms, as well as at least two ongoing court cases involving female nurses being forced to share changing rooms with male colleagues who identify as trans women, both of whom behaved in an inappropriate and sexually predatory way. Just because you haven't personally experienced it and don't know of anyone who has, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

1. Women who might otherwise have spoken up about their experiences of being made to feel afraid by trans women in women's spaces have been silenced. And with good reason. Just look at how the ones who have dared to speak up have been treated. Read about Sandie Peggie and the Darlington nurses, and how they were treated by their employer when they expressed their discomfort. Read about what happened to Sarah Summers when she asked the Survivors' Network if just one of their women only rape crisis groups could be, well, women only. Read about the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre and how they treated female rape survivors who didn't agree with their "inclusive" definition of a woman. Read about the elderly female patient who was raped by a trans woman on a female only hospital ward and then gaslit by the NHS trust who told her and the police that it couldn't have happened because there were no males present on the ward. Look at all the rape and death threats gender critical feminists are subjected to for speaking out. You can't even say with any certainty that it hasn't happened to someone you know, someone you are close to even, because women have been bullied into silence."

Mumsnet comments don't make it to official statistics very often.

We know mixed sex accommodations are more risky. Mixed sex changing rooms (cubicles) are associated with an 18-fold increase in assaults:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

Yes believe it or not, we've been involved in this issue for years now. Not since the ruling last week. We concluded that toilets were a red herring many years ago.

2016?

I think things have deteriorated slightly in the last nearly 10yrs . You are involved in groups re this issue and vulnerable kids?!

There are several women on this site over there years who have said they were sexually harassed by a transwoman in toilets. One of them was sexually assaulted by one and is a frequent poster on FWR.

Simply because it is not formally reported does NOT mean it dIdn'T hApPen!

From RedToothBrush on another thread:

"Just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it isn't happening!
How hard is this to understand?!!!
Women are conditioned to not complain and to self exclude rather than put themselves at risk.
I did a campaign against Bounty in maternity wards off the back of so many women here relating their truly awful experiences. The trusts all replied they'd never had any complaints. Then you explored why women didn't make complaints - there was a huge range about time, not making a difference, being emotionally blackmail into shutting up and being grateful, complaints made but not through official channels, not having the confidence to complain. The list went on...
My point being that this is invisibility in action. It doesn't mean there isnt a problem. It means that those people who have a problem don't feel they can use the system as the system is expecting them too. Sometimes the system itself IS the problem.
The fact you are hearing about transwomen complaining and there being zero evidence of problems - and the reverse being true for women IS the tell.
Learn to look beyond your bubble and to try and understand silences where they occur as it's often not a straight forward as you are trying to make out here!!!
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RedToothBrush · Yesterday 13:45

There have been many many thread on MN expressing fear of violence, fear of losing jobs, discomfort and loss of dignity, straight intimidation, lack of power to complain, self excluding and actual incidents of assault and vouyerism. This is backed up by legal cases and convictions .
Yet this is dismissed as transphobia whilst males are taken absolutely deadly seriously.
And women are supposed to put up.
Even the 'well I've never heard a complaint' is particularly of the process of delegitimising and dismissiveness.
Stop it. It's not cool."

Please link us up to that research.

But if you read that and dismissed it with 'it isn't a criminal issue', then I don't believe you understand what transgressing boundaries does and means to people. Of course transgressing boundaries may not be a 'criminal' issue. It doesn't make it acceptable behaviour however. And you seemed to miss the escalation part.

But I am looking forward to seeing the research you have mentioned because that would be great to see.

And you are wrong to think that.

Which you should now realise because so many women after your post told you no, they don't fit your uninformed stereotype. Actually, it's not even a stereotype because there's not even some truth in it, it's just a nasty little idea you came up with out of your own prejudices. Feminist women on board with botox for 23 year old indeed - it's laughable. Sympathic maybe, understanding why women make those choices in the world we are in of course, but thinking it's actually a good thing? Hell no.

So don't be disingenuous. This is a thread about phalloplasty on a board specifically set up to discuss the impact of genderism(1) on women. Obviously it's going to be about trans people.

That doesn't mean, as you so arrogantly assume, that's the only thing the women here care about.

I don't spend time here talking about other Feminist concerns because I don't believe they are under direct attack in the same way that the fundamental right of women to define themselves as female and have legal rights and a social and political voice for those of us that are female is. Yes there are always groups that want to put women back in our box, take away abortion, reduce the protections we have but right now, by and large, they don't have the political and establishment support that genderism does. If and when they do I'll be fighting that as well, but for now the best way to fight for women is to be out in the world living every day and supporting other women - not cheerleading everything women do, but practical support with the challenges women face. Mentoring, donating, volunteering time, sometimes just being a role model of not taking everyday sexism.

(1) Genderism being the belief that the difference between men and women is mental not physical, that female people do not exist as a meaningful legal and social group and do not deserve language, rights or identity separate from male and vice versa, and paradoxically that many trans people have an urgent need to be seen as the opposite sex and have the right to medically adjust their body in pursuit of that)