Do phalloplasties actually work?

It must be interesting to see the tactics for the first time, particularly the disingenuity and the dismissal of the idea that we have genuine, well founded concerns. No wonder MN has peaked so many.

I find the rhetoric of 'only someone with X can have knowledge about X' very odd - I've lived somewhere with a gas boiler most of my life but I know naff all about boilers.

Does someone with a pacemaker automatically achieve knowledge about pacemakers? They could tell you about their experience of having one but that's it.

I'd rather hear from someone who
is qualified in the area, or someone who has read widely on it. When it comes to any controversial topic or where money is changing hands there will be bias. A surgeon who is paid to do phalloplasty is not unbiased.

Thank you for this link and the wider site. As a feminist I find the stories of trans people who want to share the insights it gives them into how men and women exist in the world so valuable and interesting.

Omg im shocked that this is even a thing. Terrible 😣

Another odd thing you see on the phalloplasty reddit is how they seem obsessed with peeing standing up, and with hanging around locker rooms naked. They don't seem to be aware that many men do neither, and even more perhaps would never do the latter.

Whatever peachgreen was trying to do, they've managed to keep the thread in "Trending" for a while 😆

I wouldn't want my child to do this either. I'd be massively concerned about the risks and future maintenance and would tell them so.

The difference is I wouldn't be called a bigot and told suicide is the only alternative.

I spent my teens and 20s wishing for bigger breasts. Then I had children and now they are a pain in the arse and I'd like to be flat chested again.

I wonder if people are dismissive of the risks because they are primarily young.

Conversely this site worries more because most of us are mothers and have experienced incontinence so it's not an abstract thing that might happen. We know how debilitating it can be.

We've also had to get used to bodies we no longer recognise as our own after childbirth. It's not easy but surgery is also rarely the answer.

@SilverTapz a study on sexual function / sensitivity after surgery https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8498953/ …points to note from the authors “Transmasculine persons should be informed that there is a chance that postoperative sexual functionality of the neophallus will be suboptimal and that sensitivity will likely be reduced, with a long and slow recovery toward an end result that remains unclear” “Sensory outcomes are complex and this study only measured the most superficial components of sensory experience. Based on qualitative findings, we conclude that outcomes often do not match expectations, which causes dissatisfaction in a proportion of participants. Hence, it is necessary to inform transmasculine persons extensively on what to expect after phalloplasty and discuss the considerable probability of having to face shortcomings with regard to the esthetic and/or functional outcomes as well as a reduced sensibility and long recovery time”. @peachgreen you do realise that there is a difference between personal experiences and research studies?

I suspect such a forum might be rather a dangerous place to look for honest answers.

I think you equate gender critical with anti-trans or transphobic which is not the case we are just pro women’s single sex rights.

I would have no issue with your theoretical man asking questions. It’s often a good idea to consider a wide wide range of places to get information from as you learn nothing in an echo chamber.

The problem is when you take that knowledge and try and impose your viewpoints on others. I do believe that some women regret abortions and they can (rarely) cause future fertility issues, still very pro choice but people need proper counselling and to make an informed choice.

I think phalloplasty surgery sounds brutal, multiple surgeries over years for often questionable results. I’m not saying no one should have it done . I’m saying that given the permanent effects, chance of negative outcomes and sterility thst there should be a lot of psychological counselling and the decision making should be informed.

I’d also question use of NHS resources on gender reassignment. I think they’d better spent on mental health care and counselling to help people accept their bodies.

Yes, pre public toilets for women ( ha, ha , those were the days) women had to pee ‘standing up’ , or at least squatting a bit. The older public female loos in many parts of France and in the Middle East have loos designed for this, they consist of a ceramic tray with a drain and two raised areas for the feet. Grim but presumably usable.

‘Lower class’ women pre public loos used to pee in pairs, so one could shield the other.

Ah yes, another "very not pro phalloplasty" poster who seems very determined to shut down honest discussion.

You know your intentions are obvious, right?

“Lived experience” is a very partial filter, as we know very well. Objective scrutiny is less likely to be biased than subjective. One thing about these boards is the very thorough way research is carried out and shared. We have indeed educated ourselves.

You need to read OPs post - she came here after being horrified by what she saw on a forum for trans who had had this procedure.

‘Stopping trans people from existing’ a very well used falsehood on the TRA bingo card. The childishness of their responses only serves to reinforce that they are not sufficiently informed to be able to consent to this horrific surgery.

’Give me what I want or I’ll kill myself’, ‘by not giving me what I want you obviously don’t want me to exist’, ‘refusing my demands is literal genocide’ these people are mentally unwell, how many more examples of it do we need?

Another one:

'I’ve been in a whirlwind since having bottom surgery last year. I transitioned at 14, and I always felt like I was just following the next appropriate stage in my transition. And I always felt so much happier and closer to what I thought was my authentic self. And bottom surgery has snapped me out of it. Im realizing that I was an ultra tomboy, sure, and I definitely thought I was a boy as a kid, but now I’m adult with my whole life ahead of me and I’m mourning not having normal genitals anymore. And I’m mourning not even really having a girl childhood. '

Well, as pp suggested, I went and had a look on the reddit detrans thread. It's very, very sad. I hope the young people there get the support they clearly need.

This post (I don't want to link it so as to protect the privacy of the person making it) may be informative for the poster claiming that 'of course' trans people are aware of the risks:

'I need help I’m desperate, I was Ftm for 4 years and I used T for 3 and a half years. I had a hysterectomy and ovariectomy 3 months ago and I’m so sick, I feel desperate. No one had informed me well of everything that involved removing the uterus and ovaries. I want to detransfer. I’m so sick. Have any of you had experiences of detransition after hysterectomy and ovariectomy? I’m only 22 years old and I’m so sick. I was so traumatized by removing the uterus and ovaries that I woke up from past traumas and realized I was in a real nightmare. It was nothing real. My psychologist had given me in a single session of time and in 15 minutes of time the documentation to be able to access testosterone, I had recently turned 18 years old, despite knowing that I had a diagnosis of Borderline personality disorder for years and I had had a very difficult adolescence, with an attempted suicide and substance abuse. I was 16 years old at the time of abuse and before that moment I had never thought I wanted to be FTM. Then I met a trans friend right at a time when I was very sick and that seemed to me the only solution to be fine, I wanted to be saved from all that. I felt my beauty as a condemnation and finally I destroyed my body. I hate myself so much for this. I have been in therapy with a psychologist for 3 months and unfortunately we realized that my past traumas such as abuse and more had convinced me of all this and of being FTM because I simply hated my body for what had happened to me and for the attention they reserved for me. I didn’t want to exist anymore, but I was so beautiful and I loved myself. I thought that in that way men would stop reserving those things for me, so that I could be safe.'

They understand it just fine, they’re just wilfully misunderstanding because the actual horror and barbarity of what they advocate for is too much for them to accept. They use false equivalence, it’s common amongst this community.

You mean, are doctors making money out of selling these meds and procedures? Sometimes by circumnavigating the law by offshoring their company, and using loopholes in EU law to provide drugs to children, etc?

Anyway, I have made my point and – despite what some on the thread seem to think – I genuinely had no intention of derailing any thread, so I will bow out now. But OP, if you are genuinely interested in the answers to your specific questions, I urge you to also ask them on forums for trans men, and women who formally identified as trans men but have now detransitioned, where you're more likely to get accurate answers.

You’re just repeating the same thing over and over again and I have already responded, it’s getting boring.

There are a few, assuming they are telling the truth about who they are

I believe qualified medical professionals do look at Internet forums sometimes. People go on websites to argue (and attempt to police) people they disagree with all the time.

Detrans forums do exist. There's three on Reddit alone.

I agree that no one place is likely to get you a fully unbiased range of answers. But asking actual trans people who have undergone phalloplasty – whether they regret it or not – WILL get you more accurate answers than asking on Mumsnet.

Just highlighting another manipulative tactic of the activists.

.....stopping trans people from existing....

The language suggests that anyone questioning gender ideology is motivated by bigoted attitudes which lead to genocidal intentions. It's deliberate. You wouldn't want to have something in common with the Nazis, would you?

It's manipulative and childish. Questioning whether radical body modification, which creates lifelong medical patients, is the most effective treatment for the mental health condition gender dysphoria does not make you an advocate for genocide and you should not take anyone who uses this argument seriously.