To veto a double-barrelled first name

@Dotjones

I don’t know if you’re actually American, but I am, and no one thinks Mary-Jane, Mary-Lou, or Peggy-Sue are “trailer trash” names. Mary-Jane is seen as sweet and old-fashioned, like the shoe style, and Mary-Lou and Peggy-Sue sound like middle-class women born between 1940 and 1965. Billy-Jean just looks like you’re misspelling the title of the Michael Jackson song.

Double first names that end in an “ee” sound and are followed by May or Mae do tend to sound kind of hillbilly-ish, but saying that out loud would make people think you’re a snob. Names like Mary Claire or Mary Rose or Mary Emma read more like the girl is from a conservative Catholic family.

If you live in the UK there isn't actually a separate slot for first name and middle names on the birth certificate anyway - you would just give Ellie Sue as her "forenames" and then it would be up to each of you to decide how many of them you wanted to use on an everyday basis.

Double first names are the naffest, tackiest things ever (sorry to all the Ellie-Maes and Lily-Maes out there). Stand firm. How can she expect you to give your child a name that makes your toes curl?

YANBU I don’t like double barrelled first names either. But regardless both parents get a say and if you don’t agree you both have to compromise so Ellie first name Sue middle name is the perfect compromise!

To add no one is getting bullied over having a double barreled name loads of kids have them. It often gets said on here that only poor people double barrel their kids which is more bullshit. I've met enough lily Mays living in massive houses to know that's a crock of shit too. Mumsnet is not always the real world

I went to school (in the 90’s) with a Peggy-Sue, I always thought it was pretty. I don’t have any negative connotations when thinking about double barrelled first or second names, but then some of the first names at our school are quite… unusual… Hello to little Woody (always makes me think of Buzz Lightyear) and little Loki (incredibly well behaved child, like weirdly well behaved.. is probably a 😈 at home 😂)

In short OP, names have got weirder and more varied in general, if you like both names, go for it!

Congrats btw, wishing mum and baby the best 💐

Double barrelled first names are popular in my husband’s culture (also from abroad) and haven’t dated yet - nor are they associated with a certain class. In fact, he’s from the very privileged family, unlike me. He suggested a name like this and I had to explain the associations for some in the UK. The spelling of my name gives away my working class background and I hate it (mainly as it always gets comments like “Why did your parents not spell it like X?!”) so I wanted to avoid my own child hating their name for another/similar reason one day. So I don’t think you’re BU doing this, as long as it’s discussed with tact.

I think I’d suggest the Peggy Sue style name just becomes your partner’s nickname for her. Like when parents call their Dc by their first and middle name sometimes?

Agree you need to discuss her feeling like she has more of a say before the baby arrives otherwise where does it end?

OP says quite clearly in her first post:

"(I’m not using any real names here)."

Our son had a friend at school with double barrelled first and surnames, poor kid!

You both need to agree on the baby's name; if one of you freely choses to compromise on a name you don't love that's fine but if not, keep looking for one you both love.

That said, I can understand why she might think your explanation for not liking her choice is unnecessarily judgy and rude, especially if the grandmother she's honouring actually has a double barreled first name (like Peggy Sue in your example). Double-barrelled names (or multiple first names, no middle) are more common in some cultures than others; I don't find traditional ones like Jean-Luc or Anne Marie tacky at all so I guess that's a personal opinion. But you can just say I don't like Ellie Sue run together, or I don't like double barrelled names without making it a moral panic.

However, I'm also not sure how (apart from the birth announcement if you'll make one and the official school lists) people will know how you've split up Ellie Sue (assuming she's not proposing Ellie-Sue with a hyphen). I'm sure it varies by country but most birth certs and passports I've seen group first names together - so first name = Ellie Sue, middle name = Jennifer, last name = Smith-Jones and first name = Ellie, middle names = Sue Jennifer, last name = Smith-Jones will appear the same way on the birth certificate and passport (Surname: Smith-Jones, Forenames: Ellie Sue Jennifer) either way. And of course she can parse them as she likes on her CV.

Bullied is a bit extreme. Loads of kids have double barreled names and I've never heard of anyone being bullied over it.

YANBU at all. Double barrel names are awful. Definitely prefer your suggestion of first name then middle name.

This is the best post anyone has made.

I'm sorry if anyone here is offended because they like double barrelled names but god I do think they're awful and common. I live in the North and some of the names at my child's primary school are bloody ridiculous.

People commenting about names like Sarah Jane and Anne Marie, these are a completely different type of name from Albie-Jaxon, a different generation, and you know it.

Can we not dial down the language a bit?

I am not a fan of double-barrelled names personally, and I absolutely think that both parents should agree on a name that they're both comfortable with. I therefore support the OP's wish to be able to veto a name that she doesn't like.

However, I'm saddened to see how many posters keep pushing the class narrative on this. Is it really necessary to talk about these names in terms of them being common, trashy, chavvy or whatever? Can't we at least try to get away from all that?

Honestly, I don't think Cambridge or any other university admissions department will care about an applicant's name. And any employer that seeks to screen out applicants with "lower class" names frankly isn't worth working for.

I accept that it was the OP who introduced this element of the discussion, but it's depressing that so many posters are agreeing with her because they perceive double barrelled names to be "common" rather than because she is a parent with an equal right to have input.

My DC have composite composite forenames (they're half Spanish), but hyphenated names in England nowadays do tend to be a bit bleurgh (especially anything ending 'Mae').

So much judgement on this thread! Call your baby what you want, I find it really rude and offensive to dismiss someone’s name as ‘tacky’ or ‘lower class’.

All I would say is, as a teacher I have taught loads of kids with double barrelled first names and inevitably they just get called the first name, unless it’s quite a well known one such as John-Paul or Anne-Marie. I have also taught quite a few with double barrelled first and surnames which is such a mouthful for them to have to learn.

Would a compromise be for her to have the grandmother’s name as a first name and the name you both like as a middle name?

I’m with you OP and sorry to those who have hyphenated names or have called their children by hyphenated names.
I do view it as ‘trashy’ , and think what an utter nightmare on forms for the rest of her life.
If you want to call her Ellie let Sue be a middle name.

Many couples argue about the name. We agreed early on that DH could choose a boys name and I could choose a girls name. Unfortunately I really disliked the boys name he chose and we changed to a name that we BOTH loved.
This is tougher but her idea of hyphenated names is not a nice one. I would try to leave it for a while as in pregnancy everything is emotionally charged.

YANBU and you should stick to your guns, this really is a LTB situation. (I know you are two mums, I guess LTB is still a valid term but with the B being "bitch" rather than "bastard" of course.)

There are very few acceptable double-barrel names, and even fewer Christian names. The trouble with double-barrel first names is they usually have negative connotations, they are connected with the lower classes, the "trailer trash" type in America - Mary-Jane, Mary-Lou, Peggy-Sue, Billy-Jean, that calibre.

Unless you are from that background and intend to raise a child within it then it's awful to saddle them with a name like this.

I have 5 children all double barrel names but non of the above.
I think when it comes to names there needs to be a compromise. I've a neice called "Ellie-Jean" after a great granparent and tbh she gets called Ellie or "Jeanie".

I've a double barrelled first name and it was cute as a child , no so much as a woman in my mid 30s. I've hated since I was about 30 and I've refused to do it to my own kids.

This is written like a reverse.

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Only on MN are double barrelled first names considered something to be ashamed of

People on MN occupy RL as well. It's just that they're honest on MN. And I don't think shame is the issue, it's simply noticing a connection.

I'm a teacher and like it or not, double barrel first names are associated with a certain socioeconomic background. The correlation is there. I don't treat the children any differently because of their names of course, but they crop up amongst a certain demographic. I'm working class myself and my name is a shitty meaningless American name from a crap song. I assume most people hear my name and assume my parents were working class and met in the seventies. They would be right as well.

I don't think children necessarily get bullied for having double-barrelled first names. Only problem I've known one student have is her parents insistence on using both names at all times. The child in question is 13 and wants to use her first name only and begs us not to call her Angela-Sarah but if her parents overhear us calling her Angela, they submit complaints and demand we use her full name.

Neither of you gets to choose alone so both options are off the table - you both have to agree. For me this meant I couldn’t have the names I liked best and I think that’s the norm.

How could having 2 first names be common? If you're worried about your kid being judged in life, then don't have a kid. Anyway its only people like you who judge people based on misconceptions about names.

But do you ever think the problem is with you?

I'll be totally honest here, when I see some of the name threads here, I do think "but do you want your child to come across as a precocious little so and so". I'll be more honest, I was thinking of what Ricky Gervais said about why he doesn't have kids (he'd make little Hampstead cunts), but that bias is with me.

It's problematic, because it means I treat those people, more importantly, those children, differently. I have my reasons as to why I might do that and maybe some of them are even factual. However, I'm stereotyping and discriminating. That's all there is to it.