Page 3 | to have little sympathy for this landlady facing a £20,000 tax bill

cakeorwine · 2025-05-11T07:50:06+00:00

You need to listen to the story [[https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0l91m83 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0l91m83]] [[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gegkxxlg3o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gegkxxlg3o]] It sounds like she had 8 holiday lets in Blackpool. If a holiday let is not let for more than 70 nights a year, then it becomes classed as a second home. Under a second home, she is liable for Council tax. 6 of these now seem liable for backdated council tax and she faces a £20,000 backdated tax bill. Apparently landlords have been given a year to prepare. She is worried about the tax bill and says that if she goes to the hospital, she hopes its bad news. She also talks about famiiles who have come regularly to the lets. But if the properties aren't being let for more than 70 nights a year, then they aren't very popular holiday lets - and should be occupied by people who need a home. Maybe she should rent out some of the other properties to people who need a place to live in to pay the tax bill. As an aside, it's also interesting to read the BBC article which does not mention the details of why a let might become liable for Council Tax payments.

ElBandito · 11/05/2025 12:38

I wish you'd enabled voting on this OP. YANBU.

Hamandpineapplepizza · 11/05/2025 12:26

taxguru · 11/05/2025 12:12

Nail on the head. No way was she only letting each out for just 70 days a year. It's just not viable. She's been caught out! I hope HMRC go after her too. It's really time we started attacking the black economy.

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Exactly, this story has holes in it everywhere

Hamandpineapplepizza · 11/05/2025 12:25

It would be interesting to do a Land Reg search and find out who actually owns the building.

Huhuhuhu39272 · 11/05/2025 12:24

She’s one of the reasons this country is so screwed, specifically younger generations than herself.

Maybe she should sell one of her eight assets (and whatever else she has accumulated from being born at the correct time)

Hope she enjoys her tax bill.

Hamandpineapplepizza · 11/05/2025 12:23

PhilippaGeorgiou · 11/05/2025 12:05

You know what else is interesting - and I don't see mentioned in the BBC article? According to their own website, the Proprietors (defined as the owner of the business, or holder of the property) is not even her - it's Tony and Tracy Robbins. So it seems that these flats are owned by / able to support at least three people yet they only have two of them let out more than 70 nights?

When it smells like the excrement from a male cow, it probably is.

https://www.westwardholidayflats.co.uk/

Edited

Wow that's pretty shoddy levels of investigation by the bbc then

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 11/05/2025 12:22

Nenas · 11/05/2025 11:48

I have some sympathy for her. She isn't sitting on 8 buildings. She has one building, the size of a very large house and that building contains 8 miniature holiday lets. It doesn't look like one holiday let of that size would be a suitable permanent home for a family. So it's definitely not 8 permanent homes that she is hoarding.

I also don't think that running holiday lets is an unreasonable business for someone to have? They are very obviously not second homes so it does seem awful to charge her council tax as though they are.

Not sure why the hatred on this thread for her.

I suppose the best thing for her to do would be to sell the entire building, pay the £20k charge and move on. That would mean that these holiday apartments aren't available for people who have enjoyed using them and she no longer has income on which she presumably pays tax. Seems like everyone loses.

I’ve seen no hatred, only a lack of sympathy. As a business owner I have to pay the requisite amount of taxes, why should she be exempt? If her business is not making money then she either needs to change her business model or sell the property, I don’t understand why that’s being unfair to her, there are people in a far worse situation than her.

taxguru · 11/05/2025 12:20

@Nenas

How many business will we be prepared to tax out of existence? Before we realise that businesses employ people and pay tax and we need them.

Businesses need to be professionally run and comply with ALL relevant laws and regulations. They really shouldn't be run for "pocket money" by amateurs. If you run a business, you have an obligation to keep on top of laws/regulations and you should be fully prepared for the consequences of non compliance. The minimum number of days occupancy is a fundamental matter for people claiming to be legitimate businesses - there's no way she didn't know about this unless she lives under a rock. Like far too many people engaged in the black economy/tax evasion, she was just relying on not being caught out.

Hdjdb42 · 11/05/2025 12:18

Poor lady, who has 9 properties including her own! Poor lady has to pay a tax bill! I'd like her to switch places with a homeless person for the week. It might reset her priorities. If she doesn't want this to happen again, she simply has to sell most of them off. That would soon release enough money to pay her tax bill. One or two rental properties are enough, 8 is just greedy! Especially when people are struggling to buy a property.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 11/05/2025 12:16

KnickerFolder · 11/05/2025 11:12

I think everyone may be misunderstanding the type of property this is. I come from a town that has (or had) lots of these “holiday apartments”.

They aren’t flats that you could live in. It will be like an old school B&B but the rooms will have some catering facilities. It isn’t purpose built. Think of an old house with big rooms where there is a kitchenette in a corner and a bit sectioned off for the bathroom. Or a bed sit in an HMO. There will probably be an owner’s flat in the building where she lives.

They couldn’t be sold off individually as they won’t have planning permission or meet building requirements to be separate dwellings. I don’t know about Blackpool, but often seaside towns have rules about not being allowed to let holiday apartments as residential apartments to protect the tourist trade. She would probably need planning permission for change of use but may not get it as there are often “hotel zones” where the council won’t allow change of use. They don’t want to lose tourist accommodation and they don’t want them to be turned into HMOs. TBF, I can also see why a 70 year old woman wouldn’t want to turn her home into an HMO. Certainly, where I came from, many of these properties have ended up as HMOs where most of the residents are men with drug and alcohol issues.

If it isn’t making a profit and needs updating, it will be hard for her to sell it as a commercial property. It may well be unmortgageable.

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If it needs updating then she should update it! Will no one think of the poor landlady who owns 8 properties, instead of the many people who can’t get a home.

Westfacing · 11/05/2025 12:13

She has eight properties so not an 'accidental' landlord or naive investor.

If you run a business you should know the rules and pay your dues.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 11/05/2025 12:13

My violin is so tiny I seem to have mislaid it. ‘The legislation needs to change’ apparently, according to her grandson, no it really doesn’t mate, pay up or sell up, and stop whining.

Mrsbloggz · 11/05/2025 12:13

It sounds as if she's trying to portray herself as an impoverished vulnerable pensioner who has been presented with an unexpected and unfair bill.
Truth is she is rather wealthy since she has a property empire but she's been caught out because she thought she could get away with not following the rules.

PruthePrune · 11/05/2025 12:12

No sympathy for the greedy money grabbing piece.

taxguru · 11/05/2025 12:12

vookingmoney · 11/05/2025 09:08

Sounds like she was letting them out for cash in hand on the side as well. No way she'd only be letting them out 70 days a year if she had 8 to let out.

Nail on the head. No way was she only letting each out for just 70 days a year. It's just not viable. She's been caught out! I hope HMRC go after her too. It's really time we started attacking the black economy.

FatherFrosty · 11/05/2025 12:10

People still visited Blackpool before air b and b. They used traditional b and b’s / hotels / self catering caravans that were licensed and taxed as businesses. They still employed people, they still had tourist cash coming into the area.

TheWorminLabyrinth · 11/05/2025 12:08

Hwi · 11/05/2025 10:24

Gloating is never attractive. Gloating as a result of envy is particularly unattractive.

Do you ever post anything that makes even the tiniest bit of sense?

FatherFrosty · 11/05/2025 12:06

JamieCannister · 11/05/2025 11:02

Surely businesses would benefit much more from 365 day occupation, than 70 day?

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i privately rent and when I’ve been to seaside towns I always stay in b and b’s or farm cottages. I always feel for the private renters in the area and wonder how they manage to find properties when (and I’ve simplified the amounts) a long term renter family would pay £1000 a month for a property. Yet the landlord could air b and b it for £3000-£4000 a month 6-9 months of the year. granted there are more costs involved in air b and bing it. When the figures differ that much you can see why people do it.

PhilippaGeorgiou · 11/05/2025 12:05

You know what else is interesting - and I don't see mentioned in the BBC article? According to their own website, the Proprietors (defined as the owner of the business, or holder of the property) is not even her - it's Tony and Tracy Robbins. So it seems that these flats are owned by / able to support at least three people yet they only have two of them let out more than 70 nights?

When it smells like the excrement from a male cow, it probably is.

https://www.westwardholidayflats.co.uk/

JohnMajorsChicken · 11/05/2025 12:02

Viviennemary · 11/05/2025 09:10

I have a bit of sympathy because they obviously are not second homes. So basically she is owning 8 properties which are unoccupied for most of the year.

No, they are 2nd,3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th & 8th homes.
Anyway, greedy is as greedy does.

Nenas · 11/05/2025 12:02

cakeorwine · 11/05/2025 11:51

Given that there are lots of holiday apartments in Blackpool, then surely people would be able to stay in those - as it seems she is not the only one who has low occupancy rates.

It seems there is an over supply of such places if many of these places are saying they face council tax bills because of low occupancy.

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I suppose yes, visitors to the area could stay elsewhere.

The council tax charge (well, the change in policy) has made the business unviable and it does seem a shame that the business has been taxed out of existence. And a pp has mentioned that the property is very hard to sell.

How many business will we be prepared to tax out of existence? Before we realise that businesses employ people and pay tax and we need them.

Well, I suppose the council could buy the property off the lady for £250k or whatever, she could pay the £20k charge and the council could do renovations to make it into suitable housing for people. It feels a bit like nationalisation though.

Lovelysummerdays · 11/05/2025 11:59

Nenas · 11/05/2025 11:48

I have some sympathy for her. She isn't sitting on 8 buildings. She has one building, the size of a very large house and that building contains 8 miniature holiday lets. It doesn't look like one holiday let of that size would be a suitable permanent home for a family. So it's definitely not 8 permanent homes that she is hoarding.

I also don't think that running holiday lets is an unreasonable business for someone to have? They are very obviously not second homes so it does seem awful to charge her council tax as though they are.

Not sure why the hatred on this thread for her.

I suppose the best thing for her to do would be to sell the entire building, pay the £20k charge and move on. That would mean that these holiday apartments aren't available for people who have enjoyed using them and she no longer has income on which she presumably pays tax. Seems like everyone loses.

I think it’s possibly the ostrich effect which irritates. She will of had regular letters with business rates, rates relief explaining incoming changes and the requirement for proof of occupancy. It shouldn’t of been a shocker and there were probably ways to have restructured the business that may have required paying higher business rates.

The business has been structured this way initially to minimise tax. With changes in tax regimes you need to adapt your business. It does seem like it’s being run as a hobby to keep building going rather than a way to make profit.

PhilippaGeorgiou · 11/05/2025 11:58

RafaistheKingofClay · 11/05/2025 09:31

Difficult to believe she’s not managing to rent them out for more than 70 nights a year in a holiday seaside resort.

Especially since she is saying that she has people (plural - suggest it is not uncommon) who are coming to her "holiday lets" eight or nine times a year and at £200 - 300 per week. As others have said, I simply don't believe that she can't let them out more, so either she doesn't want to, or the income isn't going through the books.

KnickerFolder · 11/05/2025 11:54

cakeorwine · 11/05/2025 11:36

Ultimately - she needs to look at her business and decide the best way to make a profit out of it.

And if she can't make a profit, then I am sure someone else could.

I am also sure that tourists could find elsewhere to stay as it seems the supply of such accommodation in Blackpool far outstrips the demand for it. Or else she would have more people staying in her accommodation.

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Ultimately, I don’t think there is a way that she or anyone could make her business turn a profit. Air BnB and places like Travelodge etc have killed the already dwindling market.

There may well be plenty of other accommodation in Blackpool but if the local council won’t allow change of use, it will have to remain holiday flats.

Where I come from, the properties like this that are in prime positions have a lot of mysterious fires after sitting empty and derelict for several years…

Original poster

cakeorwine · 11/05/2025 11:51

Nenas · 11/05/2025 11:48

I have some sympathy for her. She isn't sitting on 8 buildings. She has one building, the size of a very large house and that building contains 8 miniature holiday lets. It doesn't look like one holiday let of that size would be a suitable permanent home for a family. So it's definitely not 8 permanent homes that she is hoarding.

I also don't think that running holiday lets is an unreasonable business for someone to have? They are very obviously not second homes so it does seem awful to charge her council tax as though they are.

Not sure why the hatred on this thread for her.

I suppose the best thing for her to do would be to sell the entire building, pay the £20k charge and move on. That would mean that these holiday apartments aren't available for people who have enjoyed using them and she no longer has income on which she presumably pays tax. Seems like everyone loses.

Given that there are lots of holiday apartments in Blackpool, then surely people would be able to stay in those - as it seems she is not the only one who has low occupancy rates.

It seems there is an over supply of such places if many of these places are saying they face council tax bills because of low occupancy.

OP posts:

Hamandpineapplepizza · 11/05/2025 11:51

Nenas · 11/05/2025 11:48

I have some sympathy for her. She isn't sitting on 8 buildings. She has one building, the size of a very large house and that building contains 8 miniature holiday lets. It doesn't look like one holiday let of that size would be a suitable permanent home for a family. So it's definitely not 8 permanent homes that she is hoarding.

I also don't think that running holiday lets is an unreasonable business for someone to have? They are very obviously not second homes so it does seem awful to charge her council tax as though they are.

Not sure why the hatred on this thread for her.

I suppose the best thing for her to do would be to sell the entire building, pay the £20k charge and move on. That would mean that these holiday apartments aren't available for people who have enjoyed using them and she no longer has income on which she presumably pays tax. Seems like everyone loses.

No hatred from me. But if you go into business or any sort, you have to see it as just that - a business.

If you can't even let the flats enough to meet the criteria as a holiday let then you have to face the music

It's a business not a charity