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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think forced starvation is just plain evil!

564 replies

Farticus101 · 11/05/2025 07:42

On the BBC today. The UN has condemned using man made starvation as a war tactic. Surely we can come to a general consensus that whatever you think about the conflict, Israel's actions here are just plain evil?

www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/11/there-is-suffering-everywhere-you-look-says-mother-of-emaciated-baby-girl-trapped-in-gaza

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27
BombayBicycleclub · 11/05/2025 10:58

Yanbu at all.

gerul · 11/05/2025 10:55

YANBU. Israel is a pariah state to the world. Nobody with any humanity would condone their actions.

OhMaria2 · 11/05/2025 10:52

LavenderBlue19 · 11/05/2025 08:14

I don't think anyone is going to say it's a lovely thing to do.

No but wait for The Justifiers in 3, 2,1...

Devonshiregal · 11/05/2025 10:49

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So isn’t what putin doing also genocide? Isn’t hamas’ aim genocide? yes.
most wars come down to genocide because if you want to push people out from where they live because they are not you or you want all the space or whatever your random reason is, you are trying to eradicate people for being other.

And did Gaza vote them in - not all of them you cry, no, but they did. You ignore this. Not all of America voted in trump yet the Americans are getting dragged through the mud for it.

my “hot take” is that all murders are disgusting. All acts of war are evil. And running around declaring Israel alone to be evil actually validates hamas’ disgusting actions and puts it all on a totem pole of evil. It’s all fucking evil. Israel’s doing evil things. So is Hamas. It’s all evil. If that’s a “hot take” fine. But here’s my actual hot take - Your “hot take” that the team you like more is innocent and the team you don’t like is evil, is childish and exacerbates division across the world, not just in Gaza.

DrPrunesqualer · 11/05/2025 10:47

Twiglets1 · 11/05/2025 10:44

More like 21% think the way the question is phrased is unreasonable.

It’s a very simple question. It’s one of War Crimes

Should an army be allowed to starve civilians

Yes or No

DrPrunesqualer · 11/05/2025 10:46

Twiglets1 · 11/05/2025 10:42

Of course 21% of people who voted YABU do not think starving babies and children is ok.

Think about it - this is Mumsnet. Most of the people on here are parents or grandparents, or people hoping to have children one day.

It's likely that 0% of us think starving babies and children is ok. But some of us think the situation in Gaza is more nuanced than the poll suggests and that Israel are not blocking aid to be evil but because Hamas have been hijacking the aid. The US are about to announce a plan to reintroduce humanitarian aid into Gaza in a way that Hamas can't intercept it.

I don't at all agree with Israel blocking aid into Gaza by the way. But I can see that the situation is more nuanced than you are trying to make out.

The threads question is
whether forced starvation is evil.

There may be other issues to consider but 21% voted that they believe it is not evil
because…….blah blah
It either is or isn’t.
No one is stopping people voting and thinking it is evil and then explaining why it’s happening

Twiglets1 · 11/05/2025 10:44

DrPrunesqualer · 11/05/2025 10:37

and yet a whopping 21% here on this thread think it is !

What the hell is wrong with some people

Edited

More like 21% think the way the question is phrased is unreasonable.

Twiglets1 · 11/05/2025 10:42

Naddd · 11/05/2025 10:18

The fact that 21% of you think starving babies and children is OK says a lot about you.
And before you start with the hostages bs. We all know the israeli government don't give a shit about them either

Of course 21% of people who voted YABU do not think starving babies and children is ok.

Think about it - this is Mumsnet. Most of the people on here are parents or grandparents, or people hoping to have children one day.

It's likely that 0% of us think starving babies and children is ok. But some of us think the situation in Gaza is more nuanced than the poll suggests and that Israel are not blocking aid to be evil but because Hamas have been hijacking the aid. The US are about to announce a plan to reintroduce humanitarian aid into Gaza in a way that Hamas can't intercept it.

I don't at all agree with Israel blocking aid into Gaza by the way. But I can see that the situation is more nuanced than you are trying to make out.

Elizacat · 11/05/2025 10:39

JandamiHash · 11/05/2025 08:27

Can I ask what you think would happen is Israel was no longer able to defend itself?

Starving civilians, snipers shooting kids in the head, bombing hospitals, killing aid workers, raping detainees, executing ambulance workers, is not defending yourself, it is committing war crimes.

DrPrunesqualer · 11/05/2025 10:37

LavenderBlue19 · 11/05/2025 08:14

I don't think anyone is going to say it's a lovely thing to do.

and yet a whopping 21% here on this thread think it is !

What the hell is wrong with some people

thepariscrimefiles · 11/05/2025 10:37

Devonshiregal · 11/05/2025 09:58

I absolutely agree that all these actions are awful - but anyone who engages in war is awful. And I don’t understand how some things are accepted like people being bombed but then starvation is just a step too far now we need to be super outraged? And like why is it just Isreal who gets the flack? Of course everyone says how hideous Putin is, sure, but the outrage seems to be so much more visceral and aggressive towards Israel - like they’re somehow worse that any other state engaging in killing and maiming behaviours. And hamas literally raping and be heading innocent people innocent teenagers seems to get this like pass from some people, like it’s justifiable?

Is it because when people on British soil kill innocent people we cry and light some candles, lay some flowers, and then read the newspaper headlines about it for a week before moving on? We’re a very soft nation who let things pass us by without a fight and debate whether a person who stabs a bunch of innocent kids to death deserves the death penalty - it would literally take a world war for us to get up and do something. Other countries aren’t like this, and we find it hard to understand the reactions. And judge their behaviour on our own behaviour and our own experience as having been a peaceful country for the past 80 years. We’ve got this high horse vantage point that our own grandparents or great grand parent wouldn’t be able to look down from - because people do shit they otherwise wouldn’t do when they’re at war.

I just find it weird how people here who have never even visited these places talk so knowingly on this war and take sides like it’s a sports tournament. And then engage, without even realising it, in assigning scores to different types of violence….killing with a gun is better than strangling, beheading and raping hundreds is better than bombing a hospital. It’s all fucking gross. Both sides have their reasons and arguments but if you live by peace, the only option is to love your neighbour and make room for them. So I don’t see why we’re even trying to stir the pot.

The UK government is not supporting Putin. The UK has enacted many sanctions against Russia and is providing aid and weapons to Ukraine. It is treating Russia as the enemy but they are still treating Israel as an ally and selling arms and components to make arms to Israel.

How you can say that Israel gets all the flack and Russia gets none is baffling. It's the other way round.

Joyunlimited · 11/05/2025 10:36

thepariscrimefiles · 11/05/2025 10:17

Did anyone post on here after October 7th and say that the men, women and children who were murdered, tortured or taken hostage deserved it? I very much doubt it. The world was in shock about the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust. It was utterly indefensible.

However, what is happening in Gaza at the moment also cannot be defended. It is tragic and heartbreaking to see the footage, particularly of small children. Using starvation as a weapon of war is a war crime.

Israel has won. Gaza is in ruins. The extreme right-wing Israeli Government does not care about the hostages. There are daily protests by Jewish Israelis against what their government is doing.

Yes. So why don't Hamas surrender? Why don’t Iran and the other Arab countries put pressure on them to do so? Why are useful idiots around the world encouraging them to keep fighting? Surrender is what has happened throughout history when one side has had to acknowledge that they have lost a war and want to spare their population any further suffering. Surely that would end the aid blockade immediately.

By not surrendering, Hamas are demonstrating yet again that they care nothing about the suffering of ordinary Palestinians. And the useful idiots are encouraging them to continue with that attitude.

DoubleShotEspresso · 11/05/2025 10:32

Forced starvation is and always will be incredibly cruel.
I had an uncle who was a POW to the Japanese. To his dying day he would never have any items in his home that were from Japan, quite a feat to maintain with the musical thechnology he came to love in retirement.
I remember him recounting how when he was returned with other soldiers, the whole town came out to see them and created a welcome party. But when he and others exited the bus, the crowd fell silent and women sobbed. Many couldn’t walk through the gates they were so weak. I have never forgotten his story and how it impacted him for the rest of his life.
I am exceptionally torn on what Israel should or shouldn’t be doing, equally I am forever haunted by what Hamas have made clear they intend to continue doing. It’s an awful world out there right now- we need prayers, proactive actions and a huge consideration of history before applying awful tactics like this.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 11/05/2025 10:31

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Is that a threat?

UncertainPerson · 11/05/2025 10:30

It’s utterly indefensible. With plans to control Gaza and move civilians being announced last week this looks like a major escalation and in my view another step towards ethnic cleansing.

NeedToKnow101 · 11/05/2025 10:27

Can we trust the media and ‘Hamas Health Ministry’ to ‘report’ this honestly?

To think forced starvation is just plain evil!
To think forced starvation is just plain evil!
JandamiHash · 11/05/2025 10:25

Joyunlimited · 11/05/2025 10:15

A welcome injection of history and sense.

Agreed

Honestly I think some people think a load of Jews just decided one day “Let’s be evil” and Israel was created. People need to widen what they read.

Elizacat · 11/05/2025 10:24

It doesn’t matter how many times people say “October 7th”, there is no justification whatsoever for what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Netanyahu and his government are a bunch of psychopaths.

Emigrated2025 · 11/05/2025 10:24

ThereIsThunderInOurHearts · 11/05/2025 08:15

It is without doubt evil. The Israel government and army have shown the world what horrors they are capable of.

Not only does my heart break for the 2 million innocent civilians being starved to death, but for the Jewish people who are at risk of rising antisemitism because of a rogue government, led by war criminals.

There are no winners here. This genocide must end by all governments refusing to arm and fund Israel.

That rogue government led by war criminals is democratically elected. Their actions are absolutely the will of those who voted them, and their allies abroad, including the Mumsnetters who vocally support them. Of course they will hand wring, and DARVO to make out that that emaciated child is their abuser.

The only additional action the government of Israel wants, is that you would ignore this and let them get on with it in peace.

JandamiHash · 11/05/2025 10:24

Thegreyhound · 11/05/2025 10:14

October 7th did not erupt out of nowhere.
Read the rest of my post. Unlike you, I don’t seek to defend violent actions.

Well clearly you do if you think October 7th was justified.

Im sure you’d be outraged if someone said “Well the starvation didnt erupt out of nowhere” would you not? Or do Jewish Israeli lives not matter as much as Gazan lives?

bloodredfeaturewall · 11/05/2025 10:23

well 'scorched earth' is a term for a reason.
yanbu

Jen579 · 11/05/2025 10:22

What Hamas did was terrible. What Israel is doing is genocide. It's so sad to me that people talk themselves into being able to believe that one justifies the other.

Netanyahu is just another vile, vile man up there with Putin and Trump. He should have been putting the lives of those poor hostages first - but he didn't give a shit about them. Hamas just gave him an opportunity to fully exercise his narcissistic, megalomaniacal ways and take what he wanted, wiping out everything and everyone in his way.

Tryonemoretime · 11/05/2025 10:22

What is happening to civilians in Gaza is absolutely disgusted. But what happened on October 7th was disgusting, too - as was the recent manual strangulation of the 2 little Israeli babies by Hamas operatives. How could they look at those little faces as they killed them? That's pure evil. During WW2, Germany was starving. We'd cut off all aid. That's part of the evil of war. The difference is, that modern media brings war onto our sitting rooms. We see it now - and are rightly appalled. But a thought - there is nothing preventing Egypt sending in aid or opening its borders to Gazans. But they don't want Hamas sliding into Egypt and hiding amongst their civilians as they know what they're like. And another thing - if Hamas wins with their hard line Islamic stance, there will be no Israel left and hard line Islamism will continue it's march towards Europe.

Dumbledore167 · 11/05/2025 10:21

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hazelnutvanillalatte · 11/05/2025 10:21

Naddd · 11/05/2025 10:18

The fact that 21% of you think starving babies and children is OK says a lot about you.
And before you start with the hostages bs. We all know the israeli government don't give a shit about them either

It does not follow that they think starving babies is ok, it is probably a statement against blaming the wrong cause.

Pro Palestinians do not seem to care at all about human rights violations toward Israelis. They support and celebrate horrific acts yet expect not to be challenged on their false arguments in the name of an empathy that they themselves do not display.

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