Should a Brain Surgeon be up at night with a baby doing night feeds ?

Came here to say this! Apparently someone who has been working as a neurosurgeon for 10 years, isn't allowed to call themselves a neurosurgeon unless they're a consultant 😮

A qualified neurosurgeon is called that whether they are a consultant or not. They will be operating on brains.

Maybe not, but then they should be paying for a night nanny, just as they would arrange for other things in their life to run smoothly so they can behave in a reasonable way with their partner and a professional way with their patients.

The other parent isn't going on school runs so I don't know where that comes into it. She can have a nap when baby naps. I wouldn't want a surgeon operating on me if they were shit faced tired. The rest of the team rely on the surgeon to instruct them. Hopefully, ops DD is coping better now the op was given a lot of good advice.

The worst is yet to come with motherhood wait until their baby gets big and starts school. Their little one may have to deal with prejudice because her parents are women. My son was called a "monkey" by a 10 year old a couple of weeks ago and he posted the sounds. My son gave a good fight back and gave him the finger. I would also advise the DD to get their child into karate when they are old enough it brings a lot of confidence.

Tell me you haven't read the thread, without actually saying that..............

One would assume that those with risky jobs would have the inate commonsense to get a good night's sleep before putting people at risk. If the brain surgeon has a partner he/she should do night feed b4 ops. Unless they are both brain surgeons!In which case they can afford a nanny!

Gosh yes. 10 people died in that didn't they, and it happened because the guy fell asleep at the wheel? Horrific.

It's also horrendous for any sleep deprived person to be behind the wheel of a car

..and as the Selby rail crash showed can leave you open to legal sanction.

I worked in an occupation where you were meant to be protected from fatigue ( that does not mean you were protected from being tired, in the view of the regulators fatigued and tired were different things).

Driving home post work when tired was the norm but post Selby management attitudes changed a little.

If circumstances had conspired to make you extend your day well beyond the original plan and towards the extremes of the limits management did a bit of a CYA by offering to book (but not pay for!) a hotel room for you to rest in.before driving home..

This is what I was saying up-thread. Yes it's horrendous for a brain surgeon to be performing brain surgery while severely sleep deprived. But it's also horrendous for any sleep deprived person to be behind the wheel of a car. My husband used to have to pull over on the way to and from work to have a 2 min micro nap because he could feel himself falling asleep at the wheel. He could have killed himself or other people easily. IMO the problem is the lack of paternity leave available... regardless of career. NOBODY should be functioning on that little sleep and the risks are scarily high in LOTS of scenarios.

If you are talking about risk management, it’s much more dangerous for a sleep deprived parent to do the school run while tired - they could kill themselves, several kids in their own car and the same number of pedestrians, perhaps a mum with a toddler and baby in a pram.

A tired bus driver or train driver could kills dozens.

A surgeon could only kill one - the patient.

Plus all surgeons work in a team of other professionals - a driver of a car / train / bus is alone . So less potential for someone to spot their tiredness and intervene in time.

So perhaps the surgeon needs to make sure that the other parent is well rested instead, if they intend to drive.

It's a bit unusual to seek opinions on this topic. Most people would agree that a neurosurgeon should be well-rested before performing planned surgeries. However, many neurosurgeries are emergency procedures—like those following car accidents or strokes—and can last up to 10 hours or more. From personal experience, these surgeons are often overworked regardless.

@Mondaytuesdayhappydays It's a very difficult situation. DIL definitely needs to prioritise sleep prior to operating, being a neurosurgeon is an extremely responsible job and I wouldn't want to operate on only a couple of hours sleep.
How old is baby? Could they consider moving baby into the nursery if 6 months old? Hopefully this would help the sleep.
It sounds like your Daughter is quite anxious and baby could be picking up on that and this could be contributing to the baby being unsettled. How is your daughter's mental health? Could she be suffering from some degree of post natal depression?
Also, what formula are they using? How are they making the formula? Is baby sick? There is so much more to this I feel than just being about the sleeping separately.

@ThatDaringEagle

You may consider some roles more worthy of protection than others but I'm not sure that is helpful.

FWIW the rules for flight time limitations in aviation originate many decades ago, due to the findings of investigations of accidents such as one at Singapore where 33 died multiple decades ago.

In that case it was concluded that the captain was so fatigued they didn't exercise, to borrow your phrase, "a fair degree of accuracy and precision"..and BTW and for info even today autopilots can't/don't do everything..

I do think everyone in a safety critical role should be protected from being overly fatigued, emphasis being on fatigued, not tired.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK555716/#:~:text=The%20Committee's%20report%20recommended%20that,limit%20of%20900%20flying%20hours.

but plenty of people do night feeds then go to jobs like that!

Nope, sorry they don't.
Being a brain surgeon (& possibly eye surgeon) are very involved, high precision. highly demanding jobs requiring extremely high levels of accuracy where even the slightest slip of an instrument can impact their patient for life. The surgeon needs to come to work fully rested to give the best probability of the best care being given to patients on a crucial organ when they're very vulnerable & often critically ill.

Being a pilot is a responsible job also of course but in no way comparable. Ditto nurses/ other type of medic/ etc, etc etc

P.s. you can't remove a brain tumour on autopilot

I'm guessing OPs daughter in law is not yet a consultant given her age and the fact OP said she is working her way up. You don't get called a neurosurgeon until you're at consultant level. There are a lot more lower level surgical doctors who work under the direction of the consultants and can be doing that for years and years before they actually become a consultant.

I suppose you could ask the same for general doctors/nurses/pilots/anyone that has other peoples lives in their hands. I would hope that by the time said brain surgeon went back to work they may get into a routine with a bottle etc but plenty of people do night feeds then go to jobs like that!

My husband is a GP and I didn't want him waking at night doing feeds etc. We did prepare a second bedroom for him to rest properly at night if he felt disturbed which he didn't use but he would still sit up and ask if I needed anything. He would occasionally rock baby to sleep if I got tired but wasn't expected from him. When you're making decisions and having any busy job you don't want to risk it. They can help on the nights they have the day off the following day etc

Ah, the Reform solution.

Only sensible solution is no female brain surgeons ;)

Yes, but they do typically ease off & become less frequent & less irregular through the night after that early manic phase....

Also 2 brain surgeons, will not be short of funds & options and extended unpaid mat leave &/or night time nanny assistance would be options to seriously consider for their child, themselves & the sake of their patients.

No

If you read the OP’s updates, the wife is the brain surgeon.

If a brain surgeon married another brain surgeon, or a pilot, should they not have DC at all? Someone has to deal with night wakings, and I can confirm that night wakings don’t conveniently stop at the end of maternity leave.

Not sure of who the brain surgeon is, but if it's the husband, then he's not going to be in the relationship much longer. It's ridiculous for a woman who allowed herself to become pregnant, to expect a man in a highly demanding profession to be a nursemaid, and he'll probably resent it. What's wrong with entitled women these days? What's so bad about being a mother and looking after the baby herself? Millions of women have done so without hesitation. If, however, she's also working full-time in a difficult job, something needs to be sorted out, like hiring competent help.

I know they manage badly. A few of my friends who are surgeons have confided in me several times that work can be a 'war zone', particularly when in training jobs.

So, all the more reason, the surgeon should be as fully rested as possible going in to operate on critically sick patients imho.

P s. The one brain surgeon I know well, is a pretty exceptional individual. Most brain surgeons are in my experience, but they still need ~8hrs sleep to be at their best like the rest of the human race.