to think most women are still doing the majority of parenting?

If DH behaved like that he wouldn't be my husband anymore.

That's pretty extreme but both my DM and DMIL would probably recognise this view - they wouldn't come and do it themselves though!

What is very noticeable, whatever the division of labour, is dads being lauded for doing things that are completely run of the mill parenting for mums.

Research shows that men on average earn more after the birth of their first child as they are more likely to be promoted.

We know what happens to women.

The more I live through this, the more I think the Marxists I was taught by at university were onto something. Ask not who changes the nappies. Look underneath at the power structure and the money.

It's definitely not the same.

I remember my MIL kind of ironically laughing when I was talking about division of childcare, in an 'in a perfect world!' kind of way, as if the thought were delusional.

We were both working full time in the same industry. I remember she literally cried over the phone once when I went away one Saturday leaving exDH with the kids. I was apparently 'taking away his freedom' and she said 'I'LL have to come over and do the childcare then,' but she never batted an eye at me being alone with them.

Insanity.

I completely agree.
the mum probably booked, organised, packed for the holiday too.

I see quite a lot of different set ups due to my job. Huge majority are where the mum does the vast bulk of the childcare and mental load around DC (suitable food, schools, activities, shoes/clothing) and is the one either working part time or strictly 9-5 to facilitate it. This is across couples and single mums.

There are a couple of exceptions - a dad who took shared parental leave, and a set up where the grandmother (mum’s mum) takes on a lot of it instead of the male partner.

I agree with you in general for day to day, but one thing I've noticed on holiday the Dads seem to be doing most of it. I think the issue is usually its the woman who wants the kids so they end up doing most of the work (and the reason I say this is when women continue to have children when the father already does nothing with the first one)

It's all I see amongst my friends and family and it's the reason I don't have children.

I think it’s possible to be equal parents if you both earn similar amounts.

A few months ago, I came across a thread I posted in November 2020, a month before I had ds, and smiled a bit ruefully at my naivety. DH and I were going to share nursery pick ups and drop offs, we both worked, I’d worked hard for my career and blah blah blah. And then DS happened and I very soon learned that someone had to look after him and if the other parent can’t or won’t then what do you do?

DH earns more than I do. If one of us had to give up our careers it would be me. As it is I am three days a week and going down to two next year. Our parenting isn’t equal, not even close. Maybe if we earned the same we’d both drop a day and do four days a week and things would be more equal but that just isn’t what has happened.

I was also agreeing and building on my earlier points that the expectations have to be built from the beginning.

My ex was fine at nappies and child wrangling, generally though would be watching whichever kid was easier stage wise i admit but I did the lions share because I worked pt at most, sahm until school age. You don’t know from strangers what their set up is

Yes? I agree with your posts. I wasn’t responding to you - I was responding to the poster who seemed to be suggesting that women can just leave the workplace/go part time, etc. Many women earn more than the men these days and a great deal of families rely on both incomes regardless of weighting. So, yes, I would agree that both parents need to parent equally in these circumstances, which are all too common these days.

Women are to be blamed for their own failings same as men, same as martyrs

Having children is a choice no one is forced to do it

I agree. So many threads that start “I want to be a SAHM but DH…” or
”AIBU to not go back to work FT after maternity?”

Many women have their first child their priorities shift, they want more time at home raising their child(ren) and they want their partner to pick up the financial slack. This means being on your work phone or laptop on a holiday. This means more hours at the office to get the promotions and pay raises…

You commented on expectations to be the default parent.

I haven’t commented on any of that…

Yes, most women still are doing majority of parenting but I think some of it is by choice/preference. I think it is unrealistic to shoot for 50/50 in everything because there are just things that more than 50% of women will want to do and vice versa. Most women prefer childcare to diy.

So maybe that's why it's even more important we stop this idea that women need to do more "bonding" etc while the men order us takeaways and make us tea. Maybe they need to bond too. Maybe WE need to bond and our village order the takeaways.

A lot of women do not work fewer hours (not sure what you mean by “outside of the home” as work is work, regardless of where you are) as unfortunately it’s not financially viable for many these days. Yet these women are still expected to be the “default” parent and pick up the majority of the childcare responsibilities.

You’re right, but so what?

Women are also likely to work fewer hours outside of the home.

Men are likely to do the majority of providing financially.

It’s not a big deal. Women usually WANT to be the primary caregiver.

MN needs to stop seeing women who look after their own children as being hard done by.

You can establish breastfeeding without controlling every aspect of infant care. If you feel like dad being involved takes away from you, then that's a psychological issue you have. Co-psrenting shouldn't make you feel as if you're not bonding with your baby. Just the simple act of not controlling everything and letting the baby's other parent have a say and some input.

Seems like your bond is extremely fragile if you need constant control to sustain it. Sad

Um, ok. It’s a pity some see this stage as pushing dads out, rather than acknowledging the needs of the baby and the mother in those early days.

Yes it’s important for fathers to be involved, that’s obvious. But in those early days, establishing breastfeeding, continuing the bond with the only person the growing baby has known for 9 months, seems a pity to dismiss those very powerful hormones and instincts to make sure the dad’s needs are met.

I EBF my kids and didn't see any reason to push their dad out or make out I'm the one who is in charge and knows it all and needs more. We are both parents and that's probably why now, he feels as accountable and responsible for their wellbeing as I do.

I'm a midwife, I see it all the time. On my last shift, a woman had a massive go at her husband for getting "shit on his fingers" while he changed a nappy for the second time. She made him stop and go and wash them and then give her the baby so she could do it instead.

About a week ago, a woman called me in her bay to scold her husband for holding the baby on its front. Baby was perfectly fine and content and I said as much (long as head is supported, nose and mouth are clear). She expected that I'd also tell him off and make him put the baby down or something.

I can understand that. I haven’t personally ever seen that, but have seen plenty of men switch off and allow mothers to be the main parent, then use weaponised incompetence to maintain their comfortable role of secondary parent, something that’s seen very often in society.