To worry about neighbour’s baby

🤣🤣🤣

Hey, yes, pretty much. No compulsion etc or else, well, what’s the point really. Sure, some people will be forced etc but yes, it’s frustrating when people think ‘ah yes, but you’re only doing because some man/you’re brainwashed etc. No. I’m doing it because I think it’s right. I’m currently catching up on some work (behind closed curtains even though the sun is shining). Hoping for some offerings of fruit baskets, cake and card and baklava right now :)

Why does friendship have to start somewhere with someone who has expressed no desire to have a friendship at all?

Why can't you grasp that your approach is pushy as fuck? Telling op not to give up is ridiculous and suffocating.

God how maddening for you that people can't imagine that you're doing it of your free will!! I'm so sorry people are so ignorant.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it actually the case that in Islam you have to choose the hijab of your own free will or it doesn't "count"? Because it's about your personal relationship with God?

I think cultural differences play a part here definitely.

But there was a push in child protection which filtered down to the public years ago after some horrific cases like Baby P and Victoria Climbie where the idea was 'report, report any concerns you have, you might have the missing piece of a puzzle'.

Which backfired enormously like many of these spreading awareness campaigns, because people took it to heart like the OP, felt a personal responsibility and didn't understand what should or shouldn't be reported so CYPSS were overwhelmed with inappropriate referrals and children who were actually at risk were lost in the process.

MN hasn't moved on from that and I see so many occasions where people are encouraged to 'trust your gut. report, you might have the missing piece of a puzzle' when of course sometimes they might. But in the overwhelming majority of cases, they don't.

Same goes for all the MN report to 101 posts just because an OP feels anxious about something.

Add different cultures, religions, ND and mental health into the mix and the lack of understanding exacerbates the effect.

No I’m not. I’m suggesting she should keep being friendly. Not pushy. Exactly as you say, passing the time of day. Though, you can’t easily do that with someone who never seems to leave their home. So, maybe the odd invite.

From OPs post, they moved in six months ago, still live there with the baby (presumably because OP hears the baby) and OP never sees her out and about or any visitors. Maybe she does go out, but she doesn’t appear to. She appears to be stuck at home with a baby, with no visitors.

That may be self-imposed. It may be because she’s very isolated and struggling.

And no, of course she wouldn’t break down and confess all. And no one should expect her to. But friendship has to start somewhere. Once we get to know and trust someone, and know they’re genuinely trustworthy, kind and caring, it can make it easier to confide in them. But they shouldn’t expect you to. You can be friends with someone without being interfering or pushy.

Why do you take friendliness and neighbourliness as pity or to seeking to gossip? We surely shouldn’t stop being neighbourly to people because we’re worried they think that. However, we all appear to agree that pushy isn’t desirable.

I agree. It's so patronising and reeks of " White saviour " . It's all about the giver (some of these suggestions) and not about the receiver. It just shows a staggering level of blissful ignorance towards other cultures.

I think there's a script. And its supposed to go like this :

"Oooh new neighbour. Different skin colour. Heard them speak a foreign language. Woman wears hijab. Likely Muslim. What an exciting opportunity to prove I'm really liberal and left wing . I'll pop round there with some food and a park invite, because I like those things, so I'll apply it to her , because I'm so not racist and we're basically all the same. I'll prove them nasty racist right wing bigots wrong "

Neighbour has a different set of cultural and kr religious practices which doesn't include social gatherings with non Muslim western neighbours and specific dietary requirements. Likes to be left alone to live her life on her terms.

Neighbour 1: well that didn't go as expected!!! I'm puzzled !!! Aaaand she never goes out without him. I know, I'll report to SS and HV and pop a load of leaflets on domestic abuse charities round. They can't possibly have different marriage roles to us.

Neighbour 2 : im oh so thankful! You're not like those other white bigots ! Lets do big lunches with all the family - you can post 'insta' pics of all my wild and 'exotic' foods and you with your arm draped round a brown person. You can screech on there how "vile " everyone else is whilst you're at it. We can skip along hand in hand and before you know it I'll be just like you, we'll do "wine nights in with the girls and slag off our hubbies whilst talking about EastEnders". And all because I was saved by a "white person".

Reminds me of the two motorcyclists who went to Iran, thinking all they needed to do was "listen to some local people's stories and snap a pic with their arm draped round them " all you need is #love.

People have cultural differences. Accept them. Be friendly, but "normal" friendly. Don't get over excited and cream your undies because your new neighbour is brown ! No need for well thought out culture specific gifts. It's so damn pushy and "look at me". Just be nice, and leave them alone unless invited into their lives !

If I give you my pistachio baklava, can I have your walnut?

I have black-out blinds up from late March-late September.

I have seasonal affective disorder with spring-onset and just don't like the excess light or heat. and i'm an extreme introvert.

I'll take them down occasionally but usually very early in the morning as I get up at 4am then put them back up when it gets sunny. I also go out for walks very early so some of my neighbours probably think I never go out when I do, just a lot earlier than most people.

I wouldn't welcome neighbours knocking on my door to introduce themselves or have a nose to see if i'm okay in their opinion.

Instincts about what? A woman she has seen twice?

She doesn't know if she even lives there anymore, she doesn't know if the baby is still there, she doesn't know if she heads out early morning and sees her family all day, all she knows is that their paths don't cross.

What do you think will happen if she is struggling anyway, she's going to break down and confess all to op? Or will she be more distressed because her nosy neighbour thinks she's not coping and will gossip about it? I'm disabled and in my home a lot, I would be really annoyed if my neighbour started popping by with cards and gifts and invites out of pity because she thought I was being trafficked 🤨

Being friendly is passing the time of day when you see each other, what you're advocating for is op pushing her way into this woman's life.

Yes sorry OP, I didn't mean it to sound like you should knock on the door or put a note through if you were uncomfortable with this, just that if you wanted to I thought it was a reasonable thing to do. Definitely only if you feel comfortable to do so of course.

As above though, regardless of whether I had spoken to the family, if I had concerns I would speak to the local health visiting team, so they could offer support if they felt they needed to. They are experts in this area, I am not.

You’ve misunderstood me. I didn’t mean keep knocking or acting weirdly.

I meant keep using opportunities to be friendly when they arise. All of us know that being stuck at home all day with a baby isn’t great for either physical or mental health. It’s generally healthy to get out in the fresh air and have some exercise.

If I had a neighbour with a baby who I never saw leave the house, I’d wonder if they’re OK.

Hi OP. It's up to you whether or not you feel comfortable knocking on the door. However, either way I would let your local health visitor know - it's probably all absolutely fine but if you've made your concern known to your health visitor then you won't have to worry about it anymore as you've passed your concern on and if everything is fine then the health visitor won't do anything anyway.

If I had a neighbour who came to my door with flowers, card etc and then didn't give up, I'd be beyond pissed off and most certainely wouldn't want to be friendly with them. It should come naturally. If you don't hear arguing or the baby crying for long periods of time regularly, I'd leave them to it.

Going round, multiple times, with cards and gifts, and getting no response, is pushing yourself onto someone.

I apologise if I haven’t made myself clear. I certainly didn’t mean go round with cards and gifts multiple times. That would be weird, obvs.

I simply meant don’t try once then give up. The OP’s instinct is that she’s worried about her neighbour. All sorts have gone through her head as to why she may be at stuck at home every day, apparently on her own with a baby. IMHO instinct is a powerful thing.

Of course, one explanation is her neighbour is perfectly OK and is a loner who doesn’t want to go anywhere or see anyone. She simply wants to be at home with her baby.

But there could be many other explanations. She could have post-natal depression. She may have disabilities. She could be feeling isolated and alone in a new place. She could be experiencing domestic abuse. At the extreme end, she could even be trafficked and subject to modern slavery. She may really value the friendship of neighbours.

How many times do stories come out in the news and people say, “surely the neighbours noticed” and they interview the neighbours and they say “they kept themselves to themselves”.

There’s a big difference between being pushy and interfering and being friendly, neighbourly and caring. IMHO, you should always keep being friendly to people, but obviously not in a pushy way. In a way that shows you care and you want to be friends if they do. But if they don’t or can’t, that’s fine too. It doesn’t have to be one extreme or the other.

If the woman wears a hijab or other head covering then the blinds are probably closed so she can choose not to wear it inside her own house.

Given you seem very worried it would nice to pop over with something (even just a nice fruit basket if you’re worried about religion/diet). It may simply be that she doesn’t have anywhere to go so stays home all the time. She may have pnd or other health issues that make leaving the house seem like too much effort.

But its a personal choice 🙄

Hi, OP. I am not sure what you did in the end, but just to say that I probably would introduce myself (normally I would knock on the door but in the circumstances maybe a note with your number would be less intrusive not sure). You are neighbours, you share a wall and each have young children. Surely it is completely normal to want to know each other and be able to look out for them if they are happy with this. Maybe they would want to get to know you, maybe not, but I think it is normal to at least introduce yourself.

If I still had nagging concerns I might also call the health visiting team and say you were worried that the mother might be isolated and could they check on them if they thought it necessary. This is completely different to calling social services, it is for support not reporting. The team may know the family and have no concerns so do nothing. It would just ensure the team is aware of the child to they can offer routine support. They almost certainly are already aware, but is important that they are made so if they are not already. If they are aware no harm done, if they are not aware really important that they are made so they can offer routine support.

I am introverted. As I’ve said above, my neighbours regularly inviting me, and me reciprocating, enriched my life. I didn’t find it pushy. They didn’t knock my door every day. They were respectful but continued to be friendly and hospitable.

I do understand some people want to be total loners. And that’s fine too.

But most people don’t. They prefer to make friends. Especially when in a new country where they have to practice the language.

What?!

It’s not difficult to understand. I was asking so I understood. Would you rather I didn’t ask?

I’m introverted. As I said, it took my neighbours many times of asking and encouraging me to pop round for me to feel comfortable. But I took the leap. It was excruciating at first as I couldn’t express myself properly. But they kept trying and I kept trying and it enriched my life. It helped me learn the language. I’m so grateful they never gave up on me. They became like family.

But I accept some people wouldn’t want or be able to do that. And that’s fine too. People post on here to read different perspectives.

There's friendly and there's pushy. And if you are socially anxious, you can't say "no I don't want to be friends", because you feel too overwhelmed at being approached in the first place.

You are clearly not an introvert, a loner or a socially anxious/awkward person, but many of us are. Some people just want to be left alone to lead a quiet, peaceful life. Please try to understand and respect that.

If you get no answer or response from the card and gifts, don’t give up.

These were your words.

This is, quite literally, pushing yourself onto someone.

Going round, multiple times, with cards and gifts, and getting no response, is pushing yourself onto someone.

Inviting someone over regularly when they show no interest at all, and have to keep refusing, is pushing yourself.

Can you really not see how awkward and suffocating that would be for someone who doesn't want to be friends? Especially as they are neighbours.

Pushing herself? I didn’t say that. Regular invites aren’t being pushy. I wasn’t suggesting she knocks on her door every blooming week.

However, I accept we all have different views of what’s friendly and what’s rude. Or if it’s rude and presumptuous to be friendly.

And if someone says “No, I don’t want to be friend”. You of course accept that. But she hasn’t even spoken to her yet.

Because some people are socially anxious or introverted. Why is that so difficult to understand? For some of us it is very overwhelming to be expected to socialise.