To worry about neighbour’s baby

I didn't say they would ! I think it's naive to ignore the cultural difference and pretend it's something else like 'pnd' and report to HV. But ok, I'm wrong.

@SquashedMallow I’m definitely not Naive. I’ve worked directly with various vulnerable groups for most of my career including drug addicts that people generally would give a wide berth to and you find that people are people everywhere. There are 1.9 billion Muslims in the world from numerous ethnic and cultural backgrounds. They are not going to fit in a neat little box.

You think in very black and white terms SquashedMallow, where culture is a binary and people can't find common ground.

I can't think of any culture where inviting a neighbour for tea is unacceptable 🤔

I live in the UK but my family migrated here. It’s so so common in our culture to not go out with the baby for the first few months - and some NHS services (well at least the ones near me) are learning about cultural differences and are adopting services - so I know some teams go to see the mother if she can’t go out or doesn’t want to etc.

I think it’s abit weird for you to come to such “worrying” conclusions for your neighbour just because you haven’t seen them. I’m sure you sleep, clean the house and have moments where you are not by your window - so you probably missed them.

Knock on their door and say hello. It seems you are just as bored out of your skull as concerned. So make a new friend.

In empathise as I recently had a baby so understand how isolating it can be

if you can’t pop round, you could call 101 just to be on the safe side. Yes it’s a bit invasive but we can’t be too careful when it comes to babies surely?

You've assumed I have a 'narrow sphere.' my sphere isn't narrow.

I didn't make any assumptions about all Muslim people. You're making blanket sensationalist assumptions.

But, if you prefer, we can assume the OPs neighbour just has flu/PND/chilling with her baby and she should just rock up with a cuppa and a park invite and a box of (non halal?) chocolates.

Fine : if that feels better, I'm not going to argue. There's limited point.

(There is the option of acknowledging it may indeed be a cultural norm for the neighbour in question to live differently (as per some of op examples) and it's not such a reach to deduce aspects of those given examples are likely cultural. Denying realities helps neither person to understand one another.) But carry on, assume I'm a small minded bigoted racist ... (As per standard response)

@SquashedMallow Can you accept that Muslims are all as different as atheists are from one another? And that it's entirely possible for a Muslim family to find themselves in an unwelcoming, hostile neighbourhood where no one wants to talk to them because they've already formed stereotyped views of them?
Can you accept that a practising Muslim might happily befriend a non-Muslim woman? Or do you deny people's lived experience because it doesn't correspond with what you have observed in your narrow sphere?

I had a Muslim friend who said none of the other mothers would speak to her at the school gate. They just looked her up and down and dismissed her. Eventually she removed her daughter from the school and home schooled her. Perhaps those same mothers are complaining that Muslims won't integrate!

I know you think you're being nice, and you are in fact being nice. But you're being naive.

Who is?

Of course people will hang around with people who share their background and differences in cultures exist but I honesty think it is bonkers to think that they won’t appreciate getting to know the neighbours.

When I was growing up we lived beside Irish travellers who are generally thought to “keep to themselves “ and their close friends and family were other travellers but we still had a friendly, neighbourly, mutually helpful relationship.

I’ve never lived anywhere where I didn’t know our neighbours at all. I don’t believe there is a culture that exists where it is crass to say hi I’m your neighbour here’s a box of chocolates.

I agree - Jehovah's witnesses like to keep outside influence out. They will mix very happily, but it'll be in the hope of conversion.

I wouldn't agree that the thread is "Muslim bashing" though. I think it's fair to acknowledge there are cultural differences that make rocking up with a brew and a park invite a bit crass.

Some people object to the idea that these cultural differences do exist and that can include not mixing socially with people outside of their particular religion or culture. I think it's disingenuous to not acknowledge this. It's just about giving honest and truthful answers rather than pretending the elephant in the room isn't there in OPs scenario.

It's always sensitive when people find offense in certain observations, but it's inevitable that some things can seem offensive. But it's about the intent of those words. If they're not meant as a sneer, but merely an observation or a truth, it can't always be avoided that in the process people get offended.

And the thread descends into Muslim bashing. As usual. All because a bored, nosey woman who's swallowed some offensive stereotypes says:

Not at all. It seems they are bashing themselves on this thread!

And the thread descends into Muslim bashing. As usual. All because a bored, nosey woman who's swallowed some offensive stereotypes says:

We’ve seen the dad a couple of times, but have only ever seen the mum twice, going into the house.

So she's seen them both the same amount of times! If she saw the mum going in, then obviously she must have gone out.

When my parents generation came to the UK they didn't meet nice friendly neighbours offering them cake. Far from! But now the very thought that some black or brown people might not want to talk to their neighbours is making some posters froth. And yet no one Muslim has actually come onto this thread and said that.

People are people - some friendly, some not. It's as simple as that and it applies to all races and religions. I know Jehovah Witnesses who don't socialise outside their faith. And there are ultra right wing xenophobic atheists who won't socialise outside their race. It's supposed to be a free country so we should all be able to live how we want.

Well "why live in the west?" That's not really a question for me to answer. I guess because we're "tolerant"....? But it is a valid question, and it's one that many people are asking silently and then cannot voice it, so vote accordingly.

It is very much the reality isn't it. This is where I find people incredibly naive. It doesn't go well for either party...

Muslims and they'll openly admit that if they're devout, they'll mix at work but not outside of. Out western ways are not generally aligned to their beliefs and practices. I appreciate the candidness really. Better than bullshit.
It does make me roll my eyes when the first few posts just act like the cultural difference just doesn't exist. It shows naivete.

Why live in the West? And that behaviour is not a cultural difference it is quite frankly rude. I don't believe that a Muslim would not accept a token/ gesture of welcome and kindness from a neighbour. What religion would deny a neighbour that...?!

I'm making no comment on whether or not it's acceptable, it's just a comment on how things are. Firstly the women (not all of course) seem to have little or no English and rely on the husband or children to translate. Secondly, even where they do speak English, I'm told I can only visit while the husband is at home as they can't have strangers in the house when the husband isn't there (and I'm a very non-threatening female for context). Of course there are plenty of lovely, welcoming households that aren't at all like this, but a significant subset are.

Most faiths should be able to mix and be polite where needed. To say you would only mix at work and never ever mix with someone with western values outside of work even a neighbour, for cup of tea is a problem.

Sorry but that is not acceptable. If you come to the UK it isn't polite to shut yourself away from us and say our culture isn't compatible. Maybe stay in a country where you can mix freely. That is quite frankly rude.

Absolutely agree. As someone whose role brings me into contact with a lot of Muslims, often in an unavoidably intrusive way, you are spot on. When I read that comment about "inviting her round for a brew" I thought to myself "and back in the real world..."

Don't be ridiculous. I come from a culture that values privacy and I'd never dream of opening my blinds or curtains in a way that enabled strangers to see in. Often I walk past houses and see right into people's sitting rooms. I'd find that excruciating. A Muslim woman or any other woman can value their privacy. In fact only a generation ago nearly everyone had net curtains so you could see out but no one could see in, before blinds and shutters became trendy.

The op has jumped to some quite wild assumptions (people trafficking, authorities not knowing about a baby) mostly I think because she believes the family to be Muslim and because she has only seen the women twice in the six months there. I have no clue about many of the neighbours near me or their comings and goings. If they have been there for 6 months, they moved in during winter so maybe that’s why she hasn’t been seen much. It’s also dark much of the time so how could you make people out properly and how do you even know if they have had visitors or not? You cant unless you are watching them 24 hours a day.

Despite them having done absolutely nothing wrong or strange at all.

I would say it’s strange and, most importantly here, possibly a cause for concern if there’s a newborn there who’s been seen once months ago and never again since (as far as I remember from this post). I was happy to stay home a lot with both of mine when they were young but I did have to get out - there are plenty of appointments in the early days for a start. Vaccines, six week checks, clinic appointments… To be honest, the number of replies ridiculing the OP and calling her a busy body etc is dismaying given some recent high profile cases of child abuse which have resulted in fatalities. In recent news only, it was apparently a “busy body” neighbour who discovered the children who had been locked indoors for years due to their parents’ fear of Covid. I’m not saying that’s what’s happening here and I’d guess it’s probably fine if the family were next door to me but as with everything child protection and safeguarding, I think we have to have the view of “It could happen here”. I’d much rather cause ‘offence’ knocking on a door.

Nothing wrong with it at all but, she didn’t want to go round to be genuinely friendly. She was worried about people trafficking or the likes just because they are Muslim. Despite them having done absolutely nothing wrong or strange at all. Why is noone ever knocking on my door with cake though? I feel left out. I really just want the op to knock on their door and offer fruit, cake or baklava and ask them to pick one then update us. If its the dry baklava wrapped in cling film I hope they turn it down.

Wholeheartedly agree. I am involved in community work in my professional life and people are perfectly capable of socialising without it clashing with their culture preferences.