To just not really have my kids ‘ under control ‘ a lot of the time.. 3 and 5 years old

I just had to respond to this, this is exactly how I felt with DS, I always had to be "on", he also never slept as much the books said he should. He is 21 on course for a 1st class degree STEM subject from Oxbridge, plays football (captain) , rugby and skis for the college. Is actually organising the ski trip this coming winter. He is also polite, kind and has a wonderful girlfriend. Last time he was home he actually said " I wasn't easy to parent was I?" and he is right he wasn't. Great efforts however produce great rewards.

Bribery and hissed threats. Take heart OP, mine absolutely ran rings round me. They were joyful anarchists and I was a teacher 🙂 but they have grown up to be the most wonderful grown ups. Have to say I'm rather relishing the prospect of , if they have children themselves, that phone call when they say Mum, I can't do anything with them.

This thread has actually really helped me because it’s so easy to think MN have perfectly behaved, compliant children. I mean, I always suspected this was not the case but this thread confirms it!

Hold their hands FIRMLY when they try to run off OP. You're stronger than they are, and if they say you're hurting them, just say 'I wouldn't be hurting you, if you stand still like I told you to', and continue to hold on firmly.

Are you one of those Mums who if you're holding a conversation with an adult, and your child wants your attention, you straight away interrupt your conversation, and give them the attention they are demanding? If that's the case, you need to stop the conversation, and tell your child that you're talking at the moment, and they will get their turn when you've finished. Then when you've finished saying what you wanted to say, make a point of turning to your child, and saying 'right, your turn now, what did you want?' Do this every single time they interrupt you, and you'll soon find that they'll begin to wait their turn. What so many parents seem to forget, is that it is our job to teach our children how to behave, NOT just let them do whatever comes naturally. So that's what you need to do OP, teach them what you expect, and DON'T give in just because they shout, scream, or generally make a nuisance of themselves. At some point, their life could depend on doing what you tell them, when you tell them, so if you don't teach them to listen to you, then you could be the one weeping, when your youngster goes under a car. Think about it, and remember the next time they misbehave, that it's YOUR job to teach them, you're the adult, and you know best.

Mine are 2 and 3 and honestly I’m always treading water. They don’t listen at all, trash my house constantly, run off. Doesn’t matter what I do they don’t take a bit of notice.

Your not alone!

Definitely by 3.

Us too. I hate this notion that if you have a wilful kid you are a sh!t parent. I parent my 4 year old* *much harder than the parents of some of his more easy going, compliant class mates. I still feel like I am parenting a toddler I work so hard with him, I never switch off largely through fear of being judged by parents who have no idea how lucky they are.

edited for weird layout

"A bit of spirit" typically means an unruly, destructive, spiteful child.

Have you read 'How to Talk So Kids Will Listen'? I use a lot of techniques from that. One thing that strikes me from your description, have you tried competition? Doesn't have to be against each other - I set my DD a timer when she's struggling to focus, and she has to try and beat the timer e.g. to put pyjamas on. No tangible reward, 'winning' is the reward!

Also FYI, I always apologise when I messed up, e.g. by shouting when I've lost my temper. Kids are very aware of hypocrisy, why would they want to apologise if you don't model appropriate apologies and relationship repairs.

This sounds more awful than having kids with a little bit of spirit in them 😏

Natural consequences. If mine are being too annoying, I lie down on the ground and refuse to move because they've made me so tired with their antics that I need a rest. The embarrassment is normally enough to get them back in line. Turns out sitting on the pavement outside school for half an hour while Mummy has a rest isn't very fun.

My 2 boys are a little younger but similar. The older one especially - the 2 year old will listen and obey commands, he’s just very high energy.

My nearly 5 year old though always tends towards disobedience alongside extremely high energy levels. He always seems to make the wrong choices and always appears to be not listening. Punishments and consequences stop the behaviour in the moment but have absolutely no impact in the long run - it’s like he just can’t resist an opportunity to run wild.

Im at a bit of a loss to be honest and I also occasionally shout at him. We talk to him when he is calm and he says he doesn’t like to be in trouble…but it doesn’t seem to register the way to stop getting into trouble is to just bloody behaviour! He has a very healthy diet, minimal screen time, loads of exercise at the weekend and sleeps pretty well so I think our ‘house is in order’, if you will. Following for advice!

. My DD was saying how she just finds it so hard to listen because she likes to do what she wants to do.

Bah, ha ha. That made me smile.

Further thoughts re the apologising... they're very young. They need you to be a leader, they need to have confidence in you and your judgement and believe you're infallible. Otherwise the world is a scary place.
Apologising undermines that.

This sounds like my boys when they were that age. I think you need to pick your battles, appreciate they are lively energetic fun kids rather than sitting glued to a screen and have a Special Voice for when you really need them to listen and that you don't use too often so it loses its power. Otherwise life is a bit hurly burly at that age and maybe try and nip in the bud the worst behaviours that will really drive you mad as they get older and not be too fussy about the rest?

I’m a teacher as well. I have no issue being assertive but when DS is in full not listening mode it’s very, very hard to reach him.

Thankfully he isn’t too bad as a rule but I do find the absolute blanking of what I’m saying absolutely infuriating.

My kids did this when they were this age. They would never do it to their dad and when I told him, he said to me, 'You're their mother-you're the boss. Dont let them!'. And I did realise that, no I wouldn't actually accept them messing around and running and being silly. They got a firm talking to before each outing and and I told them that we wouldn't get whatever x treat was if they didn't stay near me quietly when I was doing xyz.

At first they didn't listen and when we got home they didn't get the treat or whatever the thing was they wanted and I was just very consistent. I'm a teacher myself and I hear parents really pleading with their kids and not being clear or nipping in it the bud (I myself had been letting it slide until my husband kind of woke me up). I think a lot of parents don't have the confidence to assert themselves as firmly as they need to with their children. I can see how it happens but when unchecked, it leads to a very slippery slope, very quickly.

. I always always always apologise to them when I shout.

Don't apologise. Tell her if she behaved you won't need to shout at her.
It's okay for children to fear consequences.

I think we centre kids too much these days. I have a work friend who let's her daughter aged 3 just completely dominate the room. Everyone has to be looking at her or focusing on her or she gets louder and more distracting until you do. I know my friend thinks it's important that kids have a voice and get to share their thoughts and things like that, but now, nobody else is allowed to have a moment and she's only 3!

It's like these modern parenting ideas have gone too far, and now we are encouraging kids to be selfish and domineering because they've been told that they always have a space in the limelight. When they are forced to rightly share that space, they then feel rejected and slighted by it.

It's not cute or clever or funny when your child is like that. It doesn't signify strength of character, it signifies that the parents haven't instilled key social skills.

Yup, mine were the same, it's their age

They do improve, I promise

I was in a cafe last week and there was a woman next to me with a child that looked around 2 years old. That child sat on the seat, colouring, for about half an hour.

No way in this world would either of my kids have done that

Absolutely no advice for you , sorry. My kids are 1.5 and 3 and neither ever behave for me. My 3 year old runs off and refuses to do as he’s asked for me absolutely everything is a battle. 1.5 year old is to little to be “naughty” as such but tantrums and slaps most of the time. Worst of it is…. Both absolute angels for everyone else