To just not really have my kids ‘ under control ‘ a lot of the time.. 3 and 5 years old

100% agree with this. We have a 6 year old who is mostly well behaved now. When she was younger we’d carry her out of cafes, soft plays etc, if she didn’t do as she was told, and she quickly realised that we mean business and that there are very real consequences. As parents we are both on the same page and she knows fully well that an answer from one of us is as good as an answer from the other. It’s not always easy but kids need to know that parents say what they mean and mean what they say.

Have you reaped the benefit now a few years on? @JustGoClickLikeALightSwitch
how old are your children now?

The best teachers don't shout. Couples should ideally not shout at each other - I've never shouted at my DH for example ( though we've disagreed/argued plenty of times). Personally, I would prefer to live in a world where no one shouts.

Shouting needs to be rationed - saved for when it's really needed.

If it's done too much it loses impact and gets tuned out - but it happens and sometimes it is warrented and very effective.

I spent a lot of their childhoods trying to head off problems and avoid them - now late teens we're starting to get diagnosis of dsypraxia and adhd and looking back think that explains why they weren't easy kids and took more parenting than others - they've grown up well though.

Oh I shout too! But we used to do it more, and found things gradually improved when we made an effort not to respond with anger to misbehaviour. Obviously never shouting isn't realistic.

They sound like my kids. They are just different from others who are calmer. Mine would constantly run off and couldn't sit still. I reckon it's likely they both have ADHD.

Now 10 and 7, their favourite activity is still wrestling or having a tickle fight, but the behaviour has improved a lot.

I used to think the only way to get through to them was shouting, but I would really recommend not shouting - it's teaching them that shouting and displaying anger is normal and acceptable and then your life will get even less calm.

Try and model calm behaviour as much as possible, and be clear on consequences and follow through immediately when they misbehave.

If they are bothering people then that's not ok, but being active and extrovert rather than chilled isn't an issue in itself.

No you're not expecting too much. Sort it out now - boundaries, rewards, punishments. Else it will only get worse! Don't go down the gentle parenting route...this only works with gentle kids!!

To the person who said hold their hand and don't let go, even if they're pulling away - do be careful with this - it led to an A&E trip for a pulled elbow for us when DS was 2. (Rather that than squashed by a car of course.)

Sympathies OP, mine are wild too and I do enforce clear boundaries with them and think I lean towards stricter parenting than many of my peers. They are calming down a fair bit now at 5 and 7 and I can take them anywhere. At 3 and 5 I could only take them both out if they were strapped in to something. Trying to wait at a bus stop with them was an absolute disaster - climbing, jumping, running around in circles and completely not listening to me.

Ah see mine are what you wouldn't expect - shy and reluctant to speak to others but definitely give me a hard time! But there's always going to be an exception to the rule isn't there 😆

One other thing now that I think back to those ages - put in place consequences for behaviours where necessary but try to do it without giving attention to those behaviours. Really hard to do in practice but maybe something to think about. I gave up on trying to do the naughty step (as in Supernanny) or other forms of time out because it just ended up with child having my undivided attention while I tried to get them to stay in the time out! Putting in place the consequence then ignoring worked much better. While of course trying to notice them being good and giving attention to the good behaviours. I do actually quite like the general approach of Supernanny in terms of setting clear boundaries and being your child's parent not their friend. Not all her strategies will work with all children but maybe useful if you need a reminder that it's ok to be firm sometimes. Or even just to show that other people struggle with their children's behaviour too (obviously it's set up for the narrative though so take any dramatic improvements with a pinch of salt...).

I could have written your OP word for word (mine are also 3 and 5!). The only thing that works for me is asking them to do something and then counting backwards from 5.

"Go to the bathroom so your DF can brush your teeth."
"No! I'm just doing X/Y/Z"
"Five. Four. Thr--"
Child scurries off.

It's the only thing I can do to manage them when they get hyped up (which is almost always).

Everything @NJLX2021 wrote. I had a 5 year old and two two year olds at a comparable stage to you OP, and I prioritised (and still do, a few years on) listening and good behaviour. There is plenty of free time to roll around, be silly and be self-directed, but from day dot if I say we are going / stop doing x / start doing y they listen because there is a clear consequence if they don't. They now know that if I say something I mean it. The other side of that is that if I say something nice/in their interests, they know I mean that too. They can rely on me. There will be screaming and tantrums while you get that in place but better now than when they are 16.

I would not be apologising for shouting

Sometimes their teacher may have to shout. They need to get used to it (as long as they know why)

So I would just explain that you had to shout as they clearly weren't listening, if they listened, you wouldn't shout. It's consequences

But I'd try the calm, firm voice as long as possible. Till you can't

And actually, have you tried a raised, stern voice rather than a shout?

So I haven't read all the replies as I can probably predict alot say you aren't parenting correctly....your children are just naughty, stop pandering to them etc etc. I always get this when I post anything about my child/ren not being a 'normal' well behaved child constantly.

But I wanted to say, I defiantly find with my child at school they have a mad hour after finishing school. He doesn't listen, doesn't care what consequences, purposely does the opposite of what I ask etc. Eventually after alot of probing and asking questions (to him and teachers), I realise he has spent all day sitting quietly and behaving. Doing his work and doing what he is told. Not being able to think and do things for himself when he wants. For a child that struggles with sitting still (he is a massive fidget) and always wants to make people laugh by messing around, it is a massive ask of him. He needs a good hour run around and to be left alone to decompress.
I now have changed how I deal with him straight from school. We go straight to the park for an hour most days, he lets off some steam and then is a more pleasant person. He has a snack straight from school. This had a massive knock on effect of with other times of the day (Mornings particularly better as well)

Ha yeah it is! Mine is shy and yet gets in totally bonkers moods and nothing works. Is highly emotional too, especially when it’s just us - so we are going through it too

To the PP who said about their children sitting quietly in one particular situation and looking like mum of the year and half an hour later there is chaos... I definitely recognize that! One of mine is an angel at school, teachers fall over themselves at parents' evenings to tell me how polite, kind, helpful etc he is. I am not convinced they actually believe me that he is really loud, boisterous and dramatic at home and constantly winding up his brother to the point that I am still sometimes tearing my hair out at mealtimes and school holidays/weekends. (I'm confident he's not ND and masking, in case anyone jumps to that conclusion, just has a LOT of energy and exuberance... but has learnt to control it when needed).

Anyone who has taken the trouble to come here and discuss their children's behaviour and respond thoughtfully to some of the suggestions is not someone who lets their child run wild and doesn't care about the impact on anyone else.

You don't know that though. You havent seen the OP in action. What I know I've seen are unruly kids disrupting the lives of those around them while their timid parents insist they're doing all they can (but won't say no to them in case their feelings get hurt).

Kids need to feel and know different emotions. You've hurt her feelings, maybe now she'll think before she acts up.

Why would you apologise? Your dd didn't listen , you shouted, that's her consequence. She's clearly told you that she doesn't want to listen to you. She's much happier doing what she wants, when she wants. All very well and good when she's an adult. But she's not an adult, she's 5.

Holding hands for instance. It's not a question, it's not a request, it's a rule.

Star charts, behaviour expectations before you go anywhere - repeat, repeat, repeat. Don't do anything until the kids are listening to you.

Mine behaved in public as I was alone with them a lot and we don't drive so on public transport a lot - if they couldn't behave thus meaning I couldn't keep them safe then we couldn't go out. So it was a priorty that I always enforced.

Coming out of first primary school was chaos so they stayed close walking because I insisted- we'd stop moving till they complied and I would shout if needed - having them stay close was a safety issue. We did leave a few places when they couldn't behave and few times if they couldn't behave on train we'd walk back despite everyone being tired - if they fought watching tv it went off and them to their rooms.

We still had stressful trips and days when things were just shit behavioral wise - you just stick to your lines and hope next day is better. The hard thing is not to give in once because next few times it is then worse.

I tried to set them up for success - so if I needed them to stay still - medical appointment or school play we'd go to park or have long walk or both and have distractions on hand if needed. Dsis single parent with ADHD child tried to do same so sometimes before and after school he's just taken to field with dogs or playgrounds to run of energy. I was always surpised at parents complaining their kids couldn't sit still and it turned out they'd been in front of TV then put in car and then just expected to be still with no distractions but annoying parent later.

Parenting a marthon not a sprint we all have bad days and make wrong choices or have situations we could handle better.

The afternoon car mess around - is it all the external noise and moevment and transition from one setting to another - could getting them together and waiting a bit for everyone else to clear out - then getting to car help reset the routine? If they are in the car does the messing round really matter - can you make a game of getting ready or fake race them to get in or out? Depending on your timetable could you pop to park or libary before heading home - something to break bad habits currently?

Not vulnerable in the sense of being "a vulnerable member of society." I said OP was being vulnerable - meaning that she has come here expressing feelings and insecurities about parenting, which leave her open to attack. I was pointing out that you have attacked - not in what you said (you are entitled to your views on parenting - and she did ask for advice), but in the unkind and belittling way you said it. And she clearly does think her kids are badly behaved - that's the point of her post.

I am also at the end of my tether with children who misbehave and the parent does nothing about it. I see it all the time, and can't wrap my head around it. But that isn't what the OP is describing at all. She talks about a variety of things she has tried, and is clearly thoughtful about how she parents. But with her particular children at this particular point in time, it sounds really really hard.

I found two things worked. The first was stopping the talking. So if you want them out of the car, or you want them to go somewhere or do something, you simply pick them up and go. No chance to say no. If you’re at the school get hold of their hand as soon as you can. The other thing is praise . I used to pretend to phone someone they loved, could be grandparents, teacher, football coach. This would be in the child’s hearing but when the child thought I didn’t know they could hear. I would say “ Do you know, I am so happy with John, I think he must be growing up now, because he’s so good when I pick him up from school! He used to run away all the time but now he’s getting better every day. His teacher thinks it’s because he’s a big boy now. When he was doing it all the time it was because he was little and too young to understand.”
At bedtime I would pick the most difficult problem and say “Do you know, I’m so happy with you because today you stood by me for two minutes when I was talking to your teacher. “ If he said “No I didn’t, I ran away “ I would say “Did you? Silly Mummy! It must have been the other day you did that! I know it made me feel very happy and proud of you, whenever it was!”

Sounds very much like my DS (6). He is likely ND and we're trying to get him assessed for ADHD. However we've found the best system for him is his 'star jar' (you can buy them online). Basically a reward system, but stars can be taken away as well. Doesn't take long for them to realize the consequences when they don't listen and then you can dangle the 'if you don't listen I'm taking a star away'. We let him choose his reward once he fills up the jar. He earns stars for helping out around the house / good listening etc.

OP , I’m a mum of teens and SM to an adult , you aren’t doing a bad job at all with strategies and consequences in place , parenting is hard and tough work and we all sometimes fail some of the time , nothing in life is perfect . What you are not doing is raising crushed doormats and that is a good thing . The world is only getting more difficult and needs people with a bit of spark - I particularly laughed at your DCs comment about finding it hard to listen as she likes doing what she wants to do - don’t we all ?