To think this happens everywhere? Nurseries forcing parents to pay towards Gov free spaces

I see it the other way round - if you want care, make provision for kids. Help parents work (some directly in the NHS, all as taxpayers) and reap the benefits now and by ensuring the next generation of taxpayers/NHS workers.

Govt "subsidised" or tax payers money?

I really don't get why the last Government and now this one is trying to fund 30hrs of childcare, when an ambulance for an emergency takes 30mins to arrive and people are die in AE and corridors through lack of treatment.

Our priorities are arse about face, if you want kids, make provision for their care, birth rates haven't increased since this policy was enacted, its just handing out money to people who in many cases don't need it.

The issue is it’s promoted by Govt as “free hours” when in fact it’s govt subsidised. Quality early years provision costs way more than this or any govt is willing to pay.
Its not the fault of the nurseries but is something that govt should be more transparent about to parents!

The country has no money for fully funded free places, esp when people on way above avg incomes get them too.

Everyone wants something for nothing but then moan when taxes have to go up or cuts elsewhere.

It also is not 30 hours unless you go term time only. The government are misleading parents.

Twas ever thus

My DC are adults now, but their nursery applied govt contribution as a discount on their standard fees

Govt talking about 30 "free hours" was misleading, but don't blame the nurseries

See also care homes, where private residents subsidise the residents funded by the local authority

Example: It's costs £60 a day for a 3 year old to go to nursery. The government gives the nursery £45 for the day. Does this sound fair?? Nurseries will start to close if they have to take this loss every day.

Ours doesn’t charge it. Only the big chain nurseries round here charge it.

DC is now 6, so past the nursery phase, but their nursery in London Zone 3 charged by the full day (10 hrs) with a minimum of two days a week, and just applied the funding for "free" hours as a straight discount, on your fees that term.
It was a beautiful nursery in a converted house, with a small shady garden full of trees, that just felt like a lovely welcoming calm safe space for DC to play and learn. There was absolutely no way in hell they could have provided that service in that location, with London weighting on the salaries, on what the Government gave them for "free" hours. We're all smart enough to know that, so taking it as a discount seemed a pragmatic solution. I think it's a terrible shame that this small business might actually have to close now because they are not allowed to apply funding in a way that works for them and for parents.
The government should just be honest and say they will fund a certain amount, per child, per annum (pro-rata for shorter periods) and let nurseries and parents work out how to apply that in the most sensible way.

I haven't misunderstood at all. I have simply stated how our local nurseries work.

Consumables are not paid on 15 hours. So a child could go 2 sessions absolutely free. When you take on 30 hours, you could do 4 sessions and have to pay Consumables for all 4 sessions. I must admit that part I don't get how 2 can be free but 4 you pay for all 4 but I don't personally use 30 hours so it's a non issue.

I was also just stating that here you can't use 30 hours to so full days. So anyone needing a nursery until say 5pm, would have to pay the £25 for 2 extra hours, even if they only took their children in at 1pm for example.

I actually already provide all nappies, wipes, suncream etc. Supplying our own food/ snacks here is not an option.

Like I've said, I don't use 30 hours. I was simply explaining how our local nurseries work with the hours being set at school times, regardless if people want to use them for those times or not, it's what is offered. I can also understand though why someone might see £25 for 2 hours as expensive when you can get 11 hours for £65. It is what it is though.

20 minutes away there's a nursery that doesn't charge consumables and let's you pick the 30 hours you need to use. So it works in a completely different way. So no, I don't think I fundamentally have no idea I am simply stating how our local ones are ran and that costs can still be high for some families. Even at reduced costs, if the hours don't work for them it can still be expensive for some. Mornings and afternoon sessions used to be an option but are not now.

If nurseries are not given a fair price by the government I do understand why there are more costs to the parent. It just isn't as simple as "30 free hours" many people think they get which is sometimes how it is advertised. Especially when it is not the same everywhere.

You have fundamentally misunderstood what the funded hours are. You were never entitled to a free day. You are entitled to 15hrs a week for 38wks of the year. So yes, there will be a charge for extra hours and consumables. If you don't want to pay for the consumables you can discuss providing your own nappies and packed lunch.

Our nursery doesn’t do this. But I know from MN threads that this is very unusual.

Absolutely - my twins went to a nursery for 11 hours a week year round provision; it cost me anywhere between £140-180/month for “consumables” and meals! I still had to provide meals for both during school holidays, sandwiches every session as one of my twin doesn’t eat any fruit or veg and, if it was mixed in a meal, he wouldn’t touch it at all. Also had to provide their own nappies, sun cream and nappy cream despite them supposedly being part of the “consumables” The charge also allegedly included outings, parent evenings/consultations and access to their online journal system - but we never had access to consultations or outings and the parent journal was useless as they wrote any old thing whether it was accurate or not. We left after 18 months when they doubled their charges for funded places making them the same cost as if you paid for them to attend for the same number of hours a week!!

After we moved the twins, the new placement never charged for anything unless you ordered a hot lunch (available 2 days a week in an agreement with the primary school next door who provided it) and then it was £2:55 for a 2 course hot lunch, you got a choice of 3 dishes and 3 desserts as well!! The only thing we ever had to pay for was photos!

Our childminder does this too. We’re entitled to the funded hours but I don’t mind paying extra. I think it’s fair

All the day nurseries around here charge extra, the only way we found round it was from 3 the preschools attached to schools don’t charge that much extra (just lunchtime supervision cost and hot lunch if you want, otherwise you can bring free packed lunch)

A nursery near me upped the cost of unfunded hours to subsidise the funded hours. This was partly the reason why instead we went with a childminder who charges eligible parents the difference between the government funding and her actual hourly rate, as we aren’t entitled to the 30 funded hours.

The childminder isn’t meant to do this, but it works better for us as our hours aren’t artificially increased to subsidise the funded hours other parents access. It feels like a fairer and more sustainable approach, but the government wouldn’t like it as it exposes that the “free” hours aren’t no such thing.

There's a petition about increasing nursery funding on the government website - I think I am not allowed to post the link but it's easy to find if you go to the government petition portal and type the word "nurseries" into the search bar. Currently about 4.5k signatures.

Look up the Champagne nurseries for Lemonade funding. Been running for years, my daughter is now 10 and was set up when she was at nursery.

I recall my figures I used to pay £70 a for a 10 hour day ish, so £7 an hour. The funding the nursery received was around £4.30 an hour so a massive discrepancy.

I suspect that nurseries who own a building outright will be in a very different financial situation to those paying rent to a landlord or a mortgage

Isn’t the option - pay something and get sone discount ( “free” space ) or pay the full cost ? Be careful what you wish for

It's been inadequately funded ever since it was first introduced in 1998. You've presumably only just noticed now because this is the year that it affects you, but it's not going to magically become adequately funded. It's fine to "make a fuss" by e.g. writing to your MP and demanding that the government increase the rates paid to nurseries to something reasonable, just don't blame the nurseries or try to wriggle out of paying it. Someone has to pay the cost of the service you want, and the government won't.

They way that some nurseries manage it for free is:
minimal spending on furniture, decoration and flooring
minimal spending on resources, toys, consumables like paint, paper etc
minimal flexibility - e.g. if you only open 30 hours per week term-time-only
work right at the boundary of minimum amount of staff to children ratio so that there's no spare pairs of hands when things get chaotic
If operating on Council-owned premises or within a school building, the nursey may have no rent/utilities bills to pay and may be taxed differently which would affect the balance sheet.

If you want to send your child to the lovely nursery with the nice well-maintained garden, and lots of lovely resources and a weekly range of activities which keep your child stimulated and engaged, and which tries to have a better-than-minimum staff-to-child ratio, and which is open for longer than 30 hours per week and in the school holidays too - that all has an intrinsic operating cost which works through as an hourly cost of care which is typically 20%-40% higher than the amount that the nursery receives from the Government. Without top-ups, the nurseries would go bust. It will get worse once 30 hours for all children over 9 months is rolled out.

You are right that it's the same with breakfast clubs. A lot of schools are opting out of offering them because the amount that is offered is woefully inadequate for the costs that would be incurred, and that initiative has been structured so as to make it pretty much impossible for schools to charge any kind of top-up, so they just can't do it.

I know of two nurseries in my local area who have closed down because the council cracked down on it. My friend is now struggling to find an alternative nursery place.

It was 15 free hours when DC1&2 were at nursery, but the 15 free hours were only available to parents of children booked in full-time, eg 40h+. My DC did 3 days so didn't qualify: the nursery manager told me our 15 hours were on the two days when DC were with my mum 😑

Exactly, its a total nonsense. Crack down to what end? So the nurseries shut. What a good end result that will be.