To wonder why on every post someone asks if the poster or people the OP is posting about are neurodivergent

I would also say that there is a real prevalence on MN for people to jump on anything that even remotely lends itself to calling out a man as a shit. I know some people have had genuinely abusive, violent relationships and I believe those people are tellingvthe truth and I really feel for them. But there are also some bitter, twisted types on these threads who just want to suggest all men are pigs and, sorry, but that simply isn't the case. A lot of men are sensitive, caring, responsible amd great dads..

I know.So offensive and ignorant .

Just...wow.

Where’s your evidence that those with clinical experience,lived experience and providers of studies are incorrect? Some of us have been told by professionals on our journey and our daughters journey how often undiagnosed and misdiagnosed autism is. It’s not just opinions on the internet it’s people with bloody good experience:- researchers, studies, autism experts, professionals in the field, autistic women, parents.. all saying the same thing.

80 % of women are misdiagnosed or undiagnosed at 18. My dd was misdiagnosed with BPd and I’ve lost count of the professionals telling us how common this is and other parents, autistic women I’ve met who’ve experienced the same.You may think that’s ok but it isn’t.

Honestly think it's fucking rude that people equate autism etc with poor behaviour don't get me wrong my autistic kids can be fairly non compliant but usually it's less than their NT friends

And I have an autistic child who is "friendly" (too friendly if I'm honest) the sen school he is now in seem baffled he came out of a mainstream where he struggled and is currently thriving in a smaller environment set up for children like him stuffed to the brim with children like him and they wonder why he slotted in like a puzzle piece he literally "found his people"

I think its the self identity part that's drivel not the neurodivergent part

IME it's often used as an excuse for bad behaviour, and it becomes a problem when children are allowed to run riot as a result, causing a lot of problems for schools and other children, while the parent stands in the background shrugging muttering 'what do you expect, she has XYZ'.

Oh FFS, what do you mean by well-known?

People you know and some articles?

I'm saying yes. it can happen, and has. But not at the extent suggested.

But what's the empirical evidence you have of how often it actually happens? Some of your mates and some articles which contain opinions and no statistics?

Till it's actually evidenced, it's all just theories and opinions.

Why don;t you understand there is a huge difference between theories and opinions and facts/?

Robert Kennedy Junior who is the US secretary of health and human services thinks most vaccinations are unecessary and dangerous and still thinks Autism can be caused by vaccinations despite the fact the Dr who originally reported was struck off for making up results and his theory being debunked by numerous other studies.

But mention it online and there'll be thousands of posters absolutely convinced that their DC is Autistic because of vaccinations.

"my mates experienced this" "Google says this" "this happened to me" means fuck all.

I'm continually stunned by the lack of critical thinking and actual research people do before spouting what are only opinions all over the internet as fact.

It’s well known though that many autistic women and girls are given false diagnoses of BPD and bipolar. I know several in close and wider circles and it’s widely reported. Are you denying this to be the case?

Yes and literally nobody asks the blatantly obvious - what’s their diet/screen use/exercise/home life like. It’s just ‘ASD ASSESSMENT’

I know what you are saying but I still think YABU. Sometimes it's just pattern recognition. If you know, you know.

MN helped push me over the edge to actually start the diagnostic process years back. Combined ADHD diagnosed privately then on the NHS (much later, by which time it was a bit No shit, Sherlock). Sometimes people just recognise the cluster of traits. If it's a single trait it's ridiculous but often an OP gives a lot of information across several posts and you just think, hmmm this sounds familiar!

Like I said, it's theories and opinions.

And they differ.

Unless everyone in the population is tested, there is no way of categorically saying that anything is underdiagnosed.

All that can be said is individual practitioners stating their opinion 'in my opinion, based on my practice, I believe that it is underdiagnosed' and then some of those opinions are collated and used to project and idea or an estimate.

Google means shit to be frank, it's all ideas and hypotheses because mental health and neurodiversity are not exact sciences. There's no test that can confirm it or refute it like an x-ray, MRI or blood test.

Adult ADHD was first recognised in the DSM in 1994 and by NICE as a valid condition in the UK in 2008. Because there were enough clinicians reporting it worldwide that it became a diagnosis in adulthood whereas it had previously only been seen as a childhood disorder.

And being homosexual as a mental disorder was only removed from the DSM in 1973.

When you're talking about inexact sciences, you can only ever theorise on diagnosis and diagnostic rates.

A few years back there was a big public furore with a few articles and 'experts' theorising on how many women diagnosed with borderline/emotionally unstable personality disorder were very likely to have been misdiagnosed Autistic women. Which was very possibly true in some cases. But I worked closely at the time with my city adult Autism service who had a flood of previously PD diagnosed women requesting ASC assessments and the last time I checked which was a few years ago, they hadn't diagnosed any of those women with ASC.

I’m ND myself and I often find myself thinking ‘I wonder if they have adhd or are ASD’.
I think it’s because if they do it explains some things they are perhaps misunderstanding and/or helps to know how to communicate best with them. It can also explain why they may come across as abrupt or a bit rude when in fact they are just abrupt and direct

Yes, I see it a lot with parenting threads, and it sometimes seems like there's a subtext of "what is wrong with my child, what can I pin their behaviour on", rather than looking at the big picture. I mean especially when it's the OP who describes what sounds like a fairly normal young child and asks "does this sound like they are ND?". You know, "my four year old can't sit still", "my toddler only eats jacket potatoes and has a tantrum if I cut the potato the wrong way", "my five year old gets really upset about trivial things after a long day, does this mean they have been masking at school due to being ND". Things where the most likely answer is "no, and how could we tell from that".

I think personally it would be hard to have a good bond with a severely adhd child especially if it goes to ODD or conduct disorder

Some of the things dc1 has done
Kicked, hit, slapped, bitten me and other kids in reception

Basically the behaviour (that perhaps they cant control) is in itself what breaks some of the bond. Because you need to have some good positive times with the times telling off etc. But i think school acknowledging that this was adhd vs parent blaming would have helped. And if they had supervised better there

There are some parents though who are putting kids forward for asd/adhd and they literally dont know what it is.

I dont think everyone being told masking is bad (across every aspect) is a good thing. Sometimes the kid has to do/not do stuff for safety reasons and re classwork if they dont do it they dont learn. Masking should mean re being able to stim rather than beig able to refuse to do anything etc

A quick G0ogle will show you how Autism is very much under diagnosed particularly in women and girls and how this is well known to be the case.

No-one can actually say that Autism or ADHD is underdiagnosed, there are theories and opinions but that's not the same as concrete evidence of under-diagnosis.

And it depends which criteria is used. DSM-V criteria for ADHD and Autism is much more prescriptive than ICD-11 criteria.

If you use ICD-11 criteria, it diagnoses far more people than DSM-V.

It may feel that way but Autism is massively under diagnosed. There was a programme on Radio 4 about this a few days ago. I suspect the same is true of ADHD especially in girls and women.

DC2 has just been diagnosed with ADHD at age 20 after struggling all through secondary school for no apparent reason. Both the teachers and I knew there was a problem but it wasn't obvious what it was.

Waiting lists for autism and ADHD diagnoses are literally years long. I had to pay for DC2's diagnosis because they are a student and couldn't wait. Even going private, we were luckily to get in front of a psychiatrist within 6 months (we got a cancelled appointment).

I think the public trend led by government and others to promote awareness of mental health and neurodiversity has backfired because awareness isn;'t the same as understanding or MH/ND literacy.

And the catch-all term 'mental health' which covers everything from schizophrenia to having a walk outside, a chat with friends or a bath bomb as it's for 'mental health'.

I dealt with this in my previous job where just to give a couple of examples, the care network and family were asking for assessments for PTSD days after someone had been in a fire, because they seemed really low and afraid of fire. At that point, they had injuries restricting movement, were on prophylactic antibiotics which were making them feel sick and they generally felt shit. But the concerns were about PTSD because 'they seem traumatised'. Well yes, they just went though a trauma, they are traumatised and are having a normal response but that doesn;t mean PTSD at this stage so let's give them a chance to process and heal and see where were are then.

And "we're worried about his mental health after being given a lengthy prison sentence. he seems really low". Yeah he will be, he's going to be in prison for years, it's going to make him feel low, it would be weird if he didn't feel low.

We need better terms. Lots of people apparently objected to psychiatric or mental illness but we need to differentiate between emotional wellbeing and illness in some way.

It does appear on those threads “things that always happen on mumsnet”, as a parody of itself. If these “labels” are overused, it’s harder for those for whom it really is a problem.

it reminds me of a Hyacinth Bucket quote: “people shouldn’t pretend to be superior. It makes it so much harder for those of us who really are.”

Exactly that. It's more his personality. Or maybe it's just men I don't know.

I certainly do not do that or act that way to my partner. I think about him a lot and what might affect him. He does think about me in practical ways but sometimes falls short emotionally. Is that a man and woman thing? I aren't sure. I know if we had kids I wouldn't piss off and swan about leaving him to it.

I do like clear communication about what is going on and he's not very good at that (NT) Sometimes he expects me to just get something and I might not do as he's hinted badly. I am definitely the better communicator and he can frustate me so much. But I annoy him too. We aren't perfect. We both have our flaws and our good ways too.

Abusive people are just abusive. Their ADHD has nothing to do with it as you say they just happen to have ADHD

I definitely file that under 'arsehole behaviour' - because while the ADHD problem of distractibility/lost time/genuine forgetfulness is there, the feeling of 'my wife is at home with 3 young kids and I am being a selfish prick if I leave her alone when she needs me' is not one that just disappears. Unless he doesn't care.

I don;t know if anyone is watching the Stacey Solomon/Joe Swash reality series.

It's interesting because I think it reflects a lot of what people go through and what I went through with an ex-partner with ADHD.

Joe clearly has ADHD, has a diagnosis of it and also had a traumatic loss of his Dad when he was 12.

And some things that they're working through in therapy (possibly just for the cameras) is easily explained by an ADHD diagnosis like Stacey asking him for help with something and he gets distracted and does something else which he thinks is helpful but isn;t really helpful in terms of what she asked for help with.

But then there are other things like him popping out to the shops or something in the morning and not coming home for several hours despite her texting and calling and he knows she's at home with 3 kids 5 and under.

At what stage does she or any other woman/man in that situation get to say you're taking the piss, fannying about for hours doing your own thing when i'm struggling with these kids and you're deliberately ignoring me or just telling me you'll be home soon when you clearly have no intention to be and ADHD isn't an excuse?

At what point does it become neglect or emotionally abusive? because without the ADHD diagnosis, I think the majority of the population would say it was but throw that into the mix and a lot of well-meaning people will say aw, he's got ADHD.

When actually, it's shit and potentially abusive behaviour and ADHD could be being used as an excuse by a shit, potentially abusive partner who just happens to have ADHD.