Low UPF diet - to think the experts weren’t lying?

So it didn’t work long term then…

Anyone see a pattern emerging?

Let me explain it in layman's terms with a simple example:
100g of almonds have around 50g of fat . 100g of whole almonds = 575 calories.

100g of ground almonds = 610 calories.

Simply by processing/ grinding the almonds, you add calories.

Now, this is because because of the cell structure of almonds. In whole almonds, our bodies can not digest all the fat / calories that are associated with almonds, only about 90% of it.
If you grind (process) the almonds, you are breaking down the cell structure of the whole almonds. Making the fats more accessible to our bodies through digesting. Suddenly,99% of the fat can be absorbed by the body.

A little side effect is, that the undigestable part of the almonds are adding bulk/ fibre to our diet. Your body will work hard and burn some calories trying to digest all of the almonds without success.

On a small scale, it's irrelevant and has little effect. But if this happens meal after meal with a fraction of every food you eat, it will add up and lead to some weight loss.

Let me explain it in layman's terms with a simple example:
100g of almonds have around 50g of fat . 100g of whole almonds = 575 calories.

100g of ground almonds = 610 calories.

Simply by processing/ grinding the almonds, you add calories.

Now, this is because because of the cell structure of almonds. In whole almonds, our bodies can not digest all the fat / calories that are associated with almonds, only about 90% of it.
If you grind (process) the almonds, you are breaking down the cell structure of the whole almonds. Making the fats more accessible to our bodies through digesting. Suddenly,99% of the fat can be absorbed by the body.

A little side effect is, that the undigestable part of the almonds are adding bulk/ fibre to our diet. Your body will work hard and burn some calories trying to digest all of the almonds without success.

On a small scale, it's irrelevant and has little effect. But if this happens meal after meal with a fraction of every food you eat, it will add up and lead to some weight loss.

I don’t know. I can’t find any evidence to support the idea that swapping UPF for non-UPF but still eating the same number of calories will result in weight loss, or vice versa.

Yes, junk food is junk and makes you crave and eat more junk, and emulsifiers and other artificial additives aren’t good for you at all, but calories are just calories, unless anyone can provide evidence to the contrary.

You can buy tinned soup that has 300mls.

TBH tinned soup has zero nutrition compared to fresh soup or homemade.

Occasionally I buy cartons of fresh soup and they last for at least 2 servings.

I don’t know. I can’t find any evidence to support the idea that swapping UPF for non-UPF but still eating the same number of calories will result in weight loss, or vice versa.

Yes, junk food is junk and makes you crave and eat more junk, and emulsifiers and other artificial additives aren’t good for you at all, but calories are just calories, unless anyone can provide evidence to the contrary.

Isn't the research the one that Chris Van Tulkeken looked into?

And he followed up the effects of UPF on the brain with researchers at UCH London.

I don’t think you’re approaching this logically.

Your position is that eating UPF food will result in more weight gain than eating exactly the same number of calories of non-UPF food, I think? And therefore that switching from UPF to non-UPF whilst ingesting exactly the same number of calories will result in weight loss?

Assuming I have that right, then the previous posters’ anecdotes of weight loss by calorie reduction undermine your argument.

The fact that they may be to-yo dieting is irrelevant to your (apparent, thus far unsubstantiated) claim that UPF calories are somehow different in calorific value to non-UPF calories.

I’m not defending junk food, I’m not suggesting yo-yo dieting is good, I am certainly not denying that junk food is “addictive” and easier to over-eat.

I’d still quite like to see a study that backs up your claim, because I haven’t been able to find one.

Yes I think it’s your portions that are out, not the 70s video. I know, it’s a shock when you actually look at what portions are supposed to be. Like a tin of soup - the calories are always for half a tin. I mean, who eats half a tin of soup?!

Its only when I focus and really weigh and measure everything that I realise just how much my “normal portion” size has crept up!

So it didn’t work long term then…

Anyone see a pattern emerging?

Same. I once lost quite a lot of weight and I was eating only UPFs, but mostly only at lunchtime with no breakfast or evening meal. I wouldn't do it again, but it certainly worked at the time.

I've lost weight purely by calorie counting whilst still eating all kinds of stuff (bread, chocolate, ready meals) and drinking alcohol and diet coke.

I set myself a target based on my activity levels and stuck to it. In 2019 I went from being 65kg to 52kg and kept it off until 2020 when the world stopped. I ate too much, drank too much and didn't really exercise so I went back up to 60kg.

2022 I knuckled down, dropped the calories, upped the exercise and I'm down to 54/55kg. I go up when I don't track my calories because I simply eat too much. When I need to lose I retrack and I start to lose.

I'm not sure I'll ever be 50kg again like I was early 2020 but I'm choosing to eat more now because I need the calories for long distance running. I can no longer survive on 1300 calories anymore which is how I ended up getting to 50kg.

I'm not saying we shouldn't all make better choices, I'm just saying it isn't just UPF that makes people (me) fat.

Many people who go low fat end up losing their gall bladder. It’s a recognised problem.

And the people who demonized fat were scientists paid by the sugar manufacturers. It’s been well documented.

So yes, science is skewed by money and politics. We’re currently living in an era when people are being mutilated and put on hormones for a lifetime because they are suffering from mental health problems. The man who popularized lobotomy was a doctor who won the Nobel Prize. Science does not exist in a vacuum which is why US medicine looks very different to what we get on the NHS in the UK.

Yes as a light lunch I might have something like that..but a main meal for my DH and ds, it would not go down well! To be honest perhaps that is how much we should be eating. When you look at what portion sizes are meant to be, it always surprises me how small they are. I sometimes buy those sachets of microwave rice for DH and ds....each sachet is apparently two portions but they eat one each....ds sometimes has two!

OK our experiences are different. I am of the same generation, but it was always obvious that high sugar wasn't a good diet. There was also a ton of emphasis at the time on high fibre and whole foods. Low fat is good.

And it wasn't necessarily experts saying sugar was fine. It was diet book writers - a very different demographic. But anyone who went, 'I can't have a fry up but these five bars of chocolate won't harm me' needed their head read.

They were. I am of the generation who followed the “experts” who sold the lie that fat was the enemy and sugar was fine.

I was marginally overweight when young. My mother suggested I cut down on carbs as that was what they’d always recommended when she was young.

I read up on the topic, which said it was all about counting calories and cutting out fat was best as that had the most calories. It’s still a very prevalent attitude. Most supermarkets are still full of low fat foods, often filled with sugar to make them more palatable.

All I ended up with was excess weight and gall bladder problems as I failed on diet after diet.

The idea that experts never lie is problematic. It’s very difficult as I’d still rather trust science to help me, but finding out which science is good and which is created with an agenda driven by money and not genuinely to find out facts to help people is very difficult.

It worries me that you think the experts were lying. About basic nutrition 😲In general experts don't lie, they have checks and balances that prevent them from doing that. There's been a brilliant shift in rhetoric to cast doubt on experts, from people whose interests are served by the population being credulous about everything except what's told to us by experts. That's how we're politically in the state we're in.

Anyway YANBU of course food is better than semi-food or non-food.

Yes as a light lunch I might have something like that..but a main meal for my DH and ds, it would not go down well! To be honest perhaps that is how much we should be eating. When you look at what portion sizes are meant to be, it always surprises me how small they are. I sometimes buy those sachets of microwave rice for DH and ds....each sachet is apparently two portions but they eat one each....ds sometimes has two!

The phrasing 'a quarter of an omelette' sounds very mean, but I make a frittata using 7 eggs typically, and cut it into quarters. Maybe not wildly different, depending on what's in the omelette.

In terms of weight I think portion size is the main factor. I watched on YouTube recently a cooking video from the 1970s. They made an omelette and used six eggs and said how should cut it into quarters and everyone gets a quarter with some salad. If I served up a quarter of an omelette to my DH and DC, they'd be up in arms!

I've lost weight purely by calorie counting whilst still eating all kinds of stuff (bread, chocolate, ready meals) and drinking alcohol and diet coke.

I set myself a target based on my activity levels and stuck to it. In 2019 I went from being 65kg to 52kg and kept it off until 2020 when the world stopped. I ate too much, drank too much and didn't really exercise so I went back up to 60kg.

2022 I knuckled down, dropped the calories, upped the exercise and I'm down to 54/55kg. I go up when I don't track my calories because I simply eat too much. When I need to lose I retrack and I start to lose.

I'm not sure I'll ever be 50kg again like I was early 2020 but I'm choosing to eat more now because I need the calories for long distance running. I can no longer survive on 1300 calories anymore which is how I ended up getting to 50kg.

I'm not saying we shouldn't all make better choices, I'm just saying it isn't just UPF that makes people (me) fat.