To expect my 4 yo to walk next to me in public?

Reins?

I'd put her on those reins you can get for toddlers until she learns to hold your hand sensibly in places where you tell her its important

Well no obviously not!

I have three DC, the eldest was not like this at 4, the second was still like it at 5 driving me absolutely bananas. Youngest is 3.5 and mostly OK, unless we take him to IKEA and then he bolts for some reason ALWAYS in the kitchen section, which is also one of the places where there are two nearby shortcuts so it is a nightmare as there are four possible directions he could have gone, and it takes a while before he realises he's lost and starts to cry.

We make him stay in the trolley in IKEA now

So - IDK - I voted YABU because I think you do have to accept them at the stage of development they are at and control the environment around them a bit ie stick them in a trolley/buggy/on reins or avoid these kinds of outings entirely or keep them extremely short and with a set goal and clear instructions and lots of spare adult attention to keep her busy, set her up for success by giving her a job or a challenge/mission etc, take her when she's tired out from something else, promise her a bribe like a Happy Meal or a visit to the toy shop or something if she can meet (specific, clear expectations she is reminded of just before going into the shop).

But if you mean is it typical? I do think a lot of 4yos can manage this, especially the older end of 4. DS2 is definitely on the extreme side.

It very much depends on the child.
I had 2 like you describe, and one who walked sensibly next to me.
Same parenting. Different children.

I kept them safe by using reins. It means they have some freedom, and they don't have to spend life walking with one arm up in the air (try it for a while - it's not comfortable walking with one arm up in the air), but they are safe.

Picture list. Give her a list with pics of basics - apples, bread, milk etc and let her help you shop

This was my approach as well. I used to see other mums stressed out trying to hang on to their DC and I wondered why they wouldn’t use backpack reins.

But - keep shopping trips short - as short as possible.

a leash?

But just because it is in their nature to wander about doesn't mean you let them do it when it's not safe.

Surely this is just kids? I have 2 who are similar ages and walking anywhere with them is like herding cats.

Which makes running off even more dangerous, surely?

As a parent, you know better than a four year old what's safe and what's good for them.

I also have twin grandsons (now grown up) who would run in different directions given a chance. I know what I am talking about.

I gave my runner choices. Walk next to me, hold my hand, reins or the pushchair. If they tried to run off they lost the choice and were either put in the pushchair or on reins. So choices and consequences, it is dangerous to have them wandering or running off.

My four year old is pretty much the same. She’s also incredibly wilful generally though. I avoid taking her shopping but if I do she goes in the trolley seat. I also have a little toy Velcro shopping list I bought which helps if I remember to bring it. I do use backpack reigns still as well. I worry she doesn’t get much walking in because of how difficult it is. We live a 15 minute walk from school but it takes 45 mins to get there because she stops at every flower and stone plus I worry about her bolting into the road. We mostly drive.

I totally feel this. My eldest is 4.5 and at school, but just unbelievably wiggly and stressful to take her anywhere. She will hold hands on car parks/ roads and will respond to stop commands etc but cannot be ‘restricted’ for any length of time as she just explodes with movement. Had to take her kicking and screaming out of the supermarket last week as she wouldn’t walk nicely and was getting in people way/ touching shelves etc ( this was a once off - usually never take her anywhere as try to avoid the fight!)

my 2yo on the other had is just more calm and placid, walks normally and holds my hand. Not parenting. If I had 2 of my younger one I would be a smug mummy, and just think it was all down to my brilliant parenting. My DD has kept me humble.

Exactly my experience too .

Congratulations, you have an agreeable child. I'm strict on behaviour and mine does behave most of the time because I constantly enforce it, but he's always testing boundaries (and at age 3 it was peak).

I'm sure her parents want her to make it to 5 safely too...

If a 4 year old doesn't have the developmental skills to stay by their parents yet, reins are a safe, effective way to keep the child close while their development skill catch up.

They were invaluable with my two. I once got strange looks on holiday for using them to stop DS charging off into the swimming pools at full sprint. I managed to explain this strange contraption with the universal international lnguage "Ussain Bolt". The chap grinned with understanding at my explanation.

By 4-5, I didn't use them frequently, but they were still useful as a warning to keep close and behave sensibly, and to use if those conditions were not met which happened on several occasions. I also still used carriers, trolley seats and pushchairs as needed; the children are now fit, strong, fast teenagers with good stamina.

There was many years ago, a MNer whose husband thought that reins were silly and refused to use them. That decision cost them the life of one of their twins, a divorce and a traumatised car driver. That's an extreme but not unique outcome, but reins are preferable to getting lost, bumping into people/ things or having things dropped on them because other people aren't looking out for a waist-height human with little sense.

That’s when you need to hang on to her.

What are the consequences? And what on the other hand is the incentive to behave?

Does this behaviour lead to sonsequences because if not, it's only going to detriorate. You seem to have very little control now, so either use reins of some description, or don't allow your child to drop your hand and run off

For a start, she is still only 3.
Yes it's normal, particularly if she hasn't been taught to walk holding hands or next to you earlier.

She either walks next to you nicely or holds your hand. I suggest you work on the holding hands first.

A 3 yo should not be able to wriggle away. Hold her wrist if she does, much harder to wriggle.

And you need consequences. Practice holding hands. Go for short walks. Praise her when she is walking nicely. If she doesn't, you go straight home.

DD was a great walker at that age. DS grumbled massively about walking and usually trailed behind, unless he had a snack. He did (still does at 6) like playing imaginary games as we walked, which helped, but were mentally exhausting.

Or they can learn to behave. I had no option but to take mine shopping and she didn't misbehave. Hold hands.