To want Brexit be reversed

The Truss comment is relevant because she appeared to think “sovereignty” meant she could carry out ludicrous plans and nothing should be able to stop her. A lot of “the EU is holding us back” during the referendum campaign and in the negotiations afterwards was from people with extreme opinions who were blaming the EU for not being able to do things that the rest of the world would effectively stop them from doing, anyway, or be willing to go to war over (whether trade, cyber or physical). The Leave campaign would not have got a majority without the assistance of those with views on what Brexit should mean that were unrealistic in the real world.

The EU can't even defend itself.

Most EU countries had "sly" mechanisms in place to prevent the complete freedom of movement that was offered up by the UK when the UK was in the EU.

The EU did not work together in a concerted manner re Covid, where there was a supplies grab. It has not worked together in a concerted manner regarding Ukraine.

The EU is a group of countries that are still, despite the posturing, really just out for themselves.

I am sorry it may be harder for you to retire in Spain though x

Because when it comes to trading, proximity matters.

Our closest neighbours are in the EU. That's not the case for Australia.

Our economies are totally different as well.

I don’t see the Truss comment being that relevant. She was in for a few weeks and didn’t ask for Aus-like sovereignty.

They do have good relations with nearly everyone though, bar those hardly anyone does, it can be done.

We know from Liz Truss that real sovereignty is a myth - we are in the court of world and world market opinion. We are a small island reliant on the outside world to supply us physically with food and other resources and, in order for those resources to get to us safely, we need very good relationships with our neighbours. It’s all very well saying we can now get better trade deals with the rest of the world, but, unlike Australia, our immediate neighbours happen to be European and any trade with the rest of the world has to get to us over their air spaces, across their land, or through their waters.

Lucky for us that it is much harder for EU countries to go to war with each other, given that we are surrounded by them. Unlucky for us that Brexit helped the continuing destabilisation of the EU and if it falls apart, wars will definitely multiply in Europe, as if the war in Ukraine is not bad enough. European countries won’t necessarily feel the need to support or align with each other with no EU to keep them on side, and Russia is very keen to further destabilise the EU. Unfortunately, the world generally is heading towards greater “sovereignty,” aka worsening relationships with other countries.

Why?

But the same outcome if U.K. is no and France is yes. The same level of influence not lower for that voter in the U.K. as in pp

It's just not realistic though given our very different geography.

Please could you outline why you think this, and what benefits we are going to see. I asked a poster earlier in the thread (I don’t think it was you) but they ignored me. I have asked on Twitter before now and never had a sensible reply there either. I may begin to think that the question cannot be answered, except by those who benefit from deregulation and the desperation of certain constituencies.

I think people are quick to blame Brexit but imo the same shit would have happened regardless. We would still be in this position. Idk why people bang on about us being part of the EU being so great? The recent trade/tariff deal with the US is a positive

I don’t think it matters how aware people are. If people wanted the same outcomes a politician could sell the concept in and they’d get closer to the same level of sovereignty.

Of course it's not a myth 🙄.we struggle with our own layer of politicians why have more layers miles away far harder to keep an eye on.
Bloated burocracy doesn't work.

I'm not sure the average leave voter really has much of a grasp on the intricacies of political sovereignty in Australia vs the UK tbh. It's not all about immigration.

Depends how you’re defining it. I think a Leave voter might be ok with Aus levels of sovereignty.

But if the UK votes yes and France votes no then France trumps the UK.

Sovereignty's a bitch, eh.

Why more? If a U.K. person votes no it’s a no too.

Absolutely but I also think seeing what people think about it now it’s a reality would be a starting point. I doubt it will ever happen though.

Political sovereignty is a myth.

I also find the comments odd " I voted remain because I feel European and a cousin lives in Spain *

We are European? The UK is part of Europe and always has been. Being part of the political union or not won't ever change that just as it didn't before the construct of the eu which BTW was suposed to stop war.

The lost decades??

Germany, Italy etc all going great guns are they? The entire continent and many other countries around the world are still reeling after covid
Ukraine and even the 2008 credit crash.

It also depends on how much you value political sovereignty
Many ardent brexiters are those who worked in the machine and saw first hand the procrastination, the waste the gravy train.

We almost certainly won't be allowed back in though.

Rejoining isn't up to Keir Starmer. It's up to 27 other countries, some of whom would have to put it to a referendum themselves.

At this point Jean-Pierre in Aix-en-Provence has more of a say on whether the UK rejoins the EU than Susan in Kent does.

I think there should be another referendum to see what current thinking is and take it from there. I know that’s an incredibly simplistic way of looking at it but were KS to announce tomorrow that we were rejoining the EU with no consultation then we may as well give Nigel Farage the keys to No 10 now.

For what it’s worth I think it was and is a terrible mistake but lots of other people would disagree with that.

This comment suggests that they thought that by voting for Brexit they were voting to turn back time.

Life before the EU is irrelevant because there is no way of getting back to that point.

(And more to the point, before we joined we were the sick man of Europe and spent well over a decade trying to get in, so God only knows what they think they are reminiscing about.)

Brexit voters were older because they remember Britain before the EU and what it was like. And they were less educated because fewer people went to University in the past, many left school at 15 or 16 and started work.

Not really. I'm pretty well informed and not given to sweeping judgemental generalisations about other people and how informed they might be.

What specifically would you like you know about my knowledge? . If you think I need to jump through some specific hope of your choosing to meet your criteria to have an opinion, I'm sure I could oblige (not that I should have to).