To want Brexit be reversed

@BisiBodi I actually did use to think like you & have said similar on here many a time. However after the Reform vote, I'm truly baffled that people are so quick to believe Farage again & can't get my head around many thinking Reform will improve their lives.

Whilst I have no doubt that racism and xenophobia was uppermost in a large amount of Brexiteers' minds, I think it's disingenuous to completely ignore the desire of many for UK sovereignty - even with the knowledge that it would be a painful process, at least to begin with.

The huge ongoing desire for independence from the UK amongst an extremely sizeable minority of Scots hasn't been denounced as xenophobia, bigotry or pure lunacy. I'm sure most of those in favour are fully aware that it would be a very rough ride to begin with; but - for wise or for foolish, or for anything in between - they see it as a price worth paying for long-term gain in their overriding desire for freedom and independence from the current status quo that they are deeply unhappy with, whatever their own reasons.

Ah, Brexit.
The referendum that was not actually legally binding, contrary to what most of the ill informed electorate believed.
Fucking lemmings blindly accepting whatever was fed to them by the politically biased media.
It was less a case of 'The people have spoken' and more a 'The people have played right into the hands of the Government'.

🙄 never learnt to curb your misplaced arrogance with Brexiteers and you won't with Reformers. You then wonder why they are successful. Look in the mirror.

If you understood anything about anything you would know that supply and demand determines pricing, even for housing - shock horror.

The way to avoid pissing up a £1 trillion in furlough and other largesse would have been to…..oh I don’t know, not shit the economy down, keep healthy people, 99% who were never at risk working. What a novel idea. But hey, you wouldn’t have been able to bake mediocre banana bread the whole time then.

Private energy companies don’t produce energy. They just issue your bill. Energy production is a completely different sector. Supply and demand again, notice?

And no, 10m people or working age are 10m people of working age. You can make all sorts of excuses for people to not work, but then don’t expect the magic money tree to keep shedding £ notes. Smaller pie means smaller share.

Brexit has been a disaster unless you're in the top 5% essentially.

Going back would be great, but if anyone thinks EU will draw some harder lines the UK ever does ask to go back is deluding themselves. It will be more proof that we need them more than they need us ... which our economy has definitely proven to be true imo.

Let alone the nightmare unfolding on the other side of the Atlantic ... which the far right and uneducated here seem to be gleefully joining in on. There's a reason Teslas are still selling here and nowhere else ...

I concur with your sentiment, but not your choice of language.

I also felt that watching the Brexit debacle unfold was like watching a library being burnt down by people who can't read, but these days I'm more muted in my view, and belittling people is never constructive.

Your desire, presumably, for everyone is for those who voted for Brexit to realise their mistake, to educate themselves on the reasons behind - and the destructive results of - Brexit and to worth with, rather than against, us in doing what's best for the country. We won't get that by telling people who made a stupid mistake that they are stupid. Many aren't, many were hoodwinked, others voted out of desperation, or a misplaced desire to 'stick it to the man' in government.
I think we best achieve that with understanding. Yes, Brexit was a massive mistake that was very obvious to half the country, but it happened. And now we need to fix that, and to better help this country by leading by example and forging closer ties with mainland Europe, especially in the light of Trump's pound-shop fascism.

This country is cooked

I agree with that point

Stop referring to the political union of the EU as Europe. That's the propaganda that EU leaders spout to make the Union seem like all encompassing. It's not, and insulting to the rest of Europe. Don't abcuse people of being stupid and show your self to be ignorant in the same sentence.

I think even if the current Government tried to 'reverse' Brexit we would not get the same deal as we had before.

It was a democratic vote and if Labour goes back on the vote's outcome then that will fall nicely into the hands of Reform.

The issues that are effecting the UK were there before Brexit, which only enhanced them. The root of the problem is simply the rich are too rich and money that should be going into the public purse is going to foreign investors instead who have zero obligation to make things better for people living in the UK. e.g. Thames Water being sold off and then the expectation that the public purse will help them out of their financial woes despite taking huge salaries.

I don't think it was arrogant but certainly badly misinformed. Our failure to train people in school to think critically and to raise educational standards (especially in relation to modern history and economics) is partly to blame.

We have high housing costs, because we don’t build enough homes and import nearly one million immigrants a year and then wonder why more people and same housing means more expense.

Nothing to do with low interest rates? Nothing to do with the fact we turned housing into an asset?

But your food shop has gone up because everyone was squealing for furlough during covid so they could sit in their garden and watch Netflix. The £1 trillion borrowed and printed and during covid so healthy people could sit at home is why we have had inflation.

Yep, it would be better if they all lost their jobs. That would have been great for civil order and also have resulted in zero financial consequences...

Your energy bills have gone up because we don’t produce energy at home like those countries who are largely immune from it due to producing their own energy. The net 0 scam means that we are shutting down oil fields, not allowed to produce our own gas and get taxed billions so government cronies can get their ‘green subsidies’.

Nothing to do with privatisation for a quick buck?

You are paying more than ever in tax because more than half the population is net contributors and nearly 10 million people of working age are claiming benefits rather then working full time or at all.

Are you including pensioners in this? It's not unusual to have a high % of net contributors it's the demographics that matter. And a large majority of that 10m are people who retired early, students & sick/disabled

Oh dear. Learnt nothing from the experience then? Calling voters stupid. Hope you’re ready for Reform.

You can still do a year abroad with many university courses

Obviously it "should" be - it's clearly had no benefits at all and the majority would not now vote to remain.

Unfortunately there are no easy ways to reverse it - the EU wouldn't start negotiations now with the possibility of a Reform or Tory government.

We should certainly be pressing the government to obtain a better Trade Deal and restore things like Erasmus though. The LibDems have a policy to rejoin the Customs Union which would be a start - consider voting for them unless it would help Tories/Reform get in.

Your posts would make me laugh if I wasn’t crying first.

All those idiots who voted for brexit we told you all this would happen and you still voted for it. Serves everyone right & why on earth would Europe have us back, and certainly not on the favourable terms we had.

You all fucked it up for the rest of us by being selfish racists, so excuse me if I don’t feel sorry for you now you’ve noticed your kids have fewer opportunities. You’ve made your beds so time to lie in them.

I’m so angry with you all.

I see that the progressives and enlightened are out in force calling Brexit voters stupid and idiots. Did you smart people notice that Reform had massive electoral success just a few days ago.

Do you ever learn?

Are you prepared to laugh on the other side of your face when Reform holds the balance of power in parliament? Because that’s what happens when you keep calling the electorate stupid. The joke always ends up being on you, yet you never learn.

I'm on NI and it's been a fucking disaster for us. As a region we voted Remain but that didn't matter to the millions of English fuckwits who blindly and often obnoxiously followed Farage and Putin's agenda.

Brexit made the UK weaker, poorer and more divided than ever. Slow handicap for the Tory Party.
👏

So he's "considering Farage" because "he hates Lab and Con"? I'm glad he's got over four years to think about how flawed his 'reasoning' is and, hopefully, arrive at a better conclusion. I voted Remain and have voted LibDem most of my adult life and I could never vote for that grifting, snake-oil salesman, Poundland Trump wannabe.

Yeah, I was wondering thd same….!

Being in the EU just didn't benefit enough people in this country. The benefits were mostly towards the middle-class whereas working-class people suffered the negative effects.

All those saying it has limited the opportunities for their children to study in Italy or work in Berlin. Democratic votes have always limited opportunities for certain sections of our society. But it's usually the poor and marginalised who get screwed over by the democratic voice of the people to elect yet another Conservative government that prioritises tax cuts and making profit out of providing basic services. Yet we don't call for the vote to be reversed when it's only the poor and socially excluded being disadvantaged.
Suddenly we have a democratic vote where it's not only the marginlised being disadvantaged and everyone who voted for it is now labelled stupid.
One thing Brexit did teach us is that there is a whole section of society who only believe in democracy if people vote how they think they should vote. They rationalise it by saying we were lied to and people didn't understand the issues. We are lied to before every vote, nothing new there.

I feel the better way would be to rebuild relations rather than another referendum given how how Reform are riding at present

also Europe is changing rapidly at present let things settle when the rights isn’t so powerful before we consider a referendum

Oh the irony.

You said it an earlier post it isn't helpful to post misinformation.

However, that's exactly what's in your post.
Are you aware that the remove of VAT on sanitary products was stabled by the EU far before the UK lifted it? Are you aware that the EU directive in 2022 allows each member state set the VAT rate on sanitary products? Your statement that thevEU would never have allowed that is false & misleading.

The free movement of people vs the movement of illegal immigrants and lrgsl asylum seekers are very different agreements which Brexit voters appear to neglect. The free movement of people within the EU are typically net contributors rather than net costs.

The US imposed UK tariff of 10% vs EU 20%. A benefit for the UK you say? Technically yes as 10 less than 20. However has it occurred to you that the only reason for this is so that Teump has sone support in Euro. The remaining EU countries won't allow Trump use the UK so manipulatively and aa a result will reduce trade with UK. The UK will lose far more than they will gain. It's not a win, it's trade manipulation.

That's just not true. Half of the members are way more gender critical than UK. Poland and Hungary spring to mind, but you can add on plenty of other countries.

To be fair, the vast majority of people in this country are probably still gender critical, but a great many of them would keep quiet about it, for fear of repercussions; or because the concerns about women's rights have been framed as 'unkind' and 'phobic', whilst taking those rights from women and girls and handing them over, to be added on to their own safe, existing rights, is painted as a victimised minority prevailing over injustice - with many even stooping so low as to juxtapose it with overturning centuries of outrageous racial injustice.

The TRAs have been far from slow in asserting their beliefs, and demanding that everybody else must share those beliefs too. Such is the power and influence that they have now, it doesn't take a very large minority of them to use whatever tactics they deem necessary to take over and staunchly assert their great dominance very quickly.