To want Brexit be reversed

If I had the authority I would copy the Australian model and prioritise people where we had a genuine skills shortage and they had a genuine skill.

Not care work or similar (I work in care) and while it is important to be compassionate etc it's not a skill that we need to hunt around the world for.

To fill care/healthcare assistant vacancies we just need to offer people pay that is fair and motivating versus being on benefits/working in retail etc. At the moment people with kids can work a couple of days and be topped up to a higher salary than they could hope to earn working full time in these jobs.

I think it is important to distinguish that people do not come to Britain to work in care. They work in care to come to Britain. These are very different things and for most as soon as they have citizenship/don't need a sponsor they will be out of care as quick as they can for better paid and more prestigious work. They do not aspire for their children to work in care. Trying to fill social care vacancies with international labour is like trying to fill a bucket full of holes.

I also do not think we can afford to bring people's older generation relatives over. We all know that a dementia diagnosis for example can result in several years stay in a care home at over 1k each week. We can't afford to nurse the world's elderly - it is difficult enough to nurse our own. People from another country that want to take care of their elderly parents can choose to go to their original country to care for them if they choose.

Immigration becomes such an loaded issue but the difference between 200k or 700k or net migration at 0 isn't a moral thing it's an economic issue.

Other countries do seem more pragmatic over how they benefit.

I get the housing and space argument plus I don't think we can just keep going up indefinitely, where are we in a few decades then, with a bigger problem? But I get the economic hit especially for universities and the impact on care or health.

The UK already does this, you need to apply for a visa to come and live, work, study here.

If you want to stop all immigration, will you also stop all emigration?

So what are you saying in response to my question? That you would stop all immigration? In all categories?

Or would you prioritise between different groups? I'm interested in which groups you would prioritise over others.

All immigration that takes us over a net balance of zero (numbers of people leaving versus numbers arriving roughly) as we have zero excess of housing.

I am reading today about the government looking at visas for people who are most likely to overstay e.g. come as students and later claim asylum. I've chatted to someone myself whose family has come on a student visa from Nigeria. They were totally open that the person "studying" in no way needed the degree and was highly educated in Nigeria but it was a route into Britain for the whole family.

Referenda are not a one time thing.

Or like Brexiters blamed everything on the EU when we were still in?...

It’s nice to have something to blame everything on though. Makes things simple. Late for work? Brexit. Reversed into someone’s car? Sorry, Brexit. Contraception failed? Yeah, that was Brexit.

I don't think anyone feels they have a right to "mind" that say Australia is difficult to emigrate to do they?

People know if they want to be able to live/work/stay in Australia - they have no right do it. Australia has to be convinced that you will be a benefit to their country and meet the barriers to entry that they set - otherwise it is a no. Seems perfectly sensible to me.

Brexit has cost the economy billions -

https://www.london.gov.uk/new-report-reveals-uk-economy-almost-ps140billion-smaller-because-brexit

yes agreed but.... Brexit has just aggravated these issues.

I couldnt agree with you more. The problem is how we reverse Brexit?

People like Farage completely misled the country with their total fiction that was Brexit. Never made sense and never will. Now the reality is biting as remainers predicted it would.

“stitched us up” strikes me as being a very silly response.
You need to read Sir Ivan Roger’s 9 Lessons of Brexit, or if you can’t be bothered just the first two (a) Brexit means Brexit, or, you don’t get the benefits of membership unless you’re a member and (b) other people have sovereignty too, meaning the EU owed the UK absolutely nothing. The UK wasn’t stitched up, it was delusional and got pissy when reality came calling.

We still have the 2nd largest economy and gdp in Europe, the same as we did in 2019.

I get that the Flat Earth comparison was rather derogatory but I meant that as an example of an outlier theory. Economically-speaking, I do think that the business case for leaving the EU was unsound. If you take other factors into consideration, I could understand the sovereignty argument, but then I'm a realist who doesn't believe that true sovereignty (in the way that leavers want to achieve) is realistic in this day and age. Nations are interdependent and if you leave one bloc as a middle power, you will fall into the orbit of another superpower. In that respect, I thought that being a senior member of the only bloc that is based on partnerships of equals, flawed as it may be, was preferable to becoming the vassal of another superpower. I frankly don't know right now what the partnership with the EU will look like if we get closer to them, but I would not want an alignment with Trump.

I said that any decent interviewee or the presenter themselves should have made the point about the balance of opinion. That’s the point of interviews, questions and arguments.

The flat earth comparison is silly - unless you genuinely think that being in the EU is scientifically provable to be better than not. This was a political issue, not something demonstrably true or false using measuring instruments.

I doubt that the Brexit debate could be shown to be any more dishonest than any political campaign.

Even so, as I said upthread, I opted for remain, all considered, including what I will admit is an emotional belief that we should be aligned with other European nations.

But I’d like to think that I can see things ‘in colour’ and that this subject is not as one-sided or obvious as some EU supporters on here maintain. Certainly, saying that Brexit supporters are all very thick and easily led is an unhelpful position (I’m not suggesting you think or say that, but it’s all over these threads).

Generally, I do think there’s a rather disagreeable middle class ‘I’m educated and well-travelled, you’re not, so do as I say’ whiff about these threads.

Did they give that impression?

There goes that benefit

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/05/05/britains-tariff-burden-worse-than-eu-despite-trump-brussels/

@Viviennemary - I know you do. I remember the old Brexit threads.

I agree with you OP. Brexit has been a complete failure based on lies and exaggerations of its benefits from the outset of its campaigns. At the time it felt like a protest vote at the lack of concern economically for people living outside richer areas of the UK.

Now, hanging on to Brexit is madness. it’s made the UK much more vulnerable to global politics and its knocked billions off our economy compared to if we’d stayed in the EU.

I feel the absolute opposite to you. I am glad we are out of Europe. They stitched us up at every turn. Good riddance I say.

Well... I think they should have emphasised the actual ratio. I didn't even know it was that dramatically negative (and I was pretty plugged in during the lead up to the referendum). The pro-Leave case was given a platform which conferred it a veneer of rationality that it did not deserve. By giving a systematic 50-50 representation, voters were led to believe that it was not the outlier option it should have been - at least on the economy. That is why I am in fact much more pissed off with Cameron than I am with Farage. Farage was being Farage, but without Cameron's arrogant complacency we wouldn't be in this shit.
To go back to your initial question, no, in a case like this, it's a bit like asking if a Flat-Earther should have a platform at a planetary convention.
In terms of the economy, voting Brexit was on the level of Flat Earth belief and it should have been presented as such. But ultimately, it was a vote about identity and emotions. Do you FEEL more European? Do you want Britain (England, really, after all the bus was red) to remain British. There's no arguing with feelings, which is why I don't judge leave voters. I just think the Brexit referendum by nature was misleading and manipulative.

Wow, thanks for enlightening us all. We'd never have known.

It was advisory they gave the impression it wouldn't happen either way they were simply gauging the will of the people I don't think they would have voted that way had the government nor put it in those terms

You won't mind then if other countries also say no to immigration and close their borders to British people?