To want Brexit be reversed

The UK has rej-oined the European Horizon science project so there may be hope for Erasmus being available.

https://www.london.gov.uk/new-report-reveals-uk-economy-almost-ps140billion-smaller-because-brexit

https://niesr.ac.uk/blog/five-years-economic-impact-brexit

https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/impact-brexit-uk-economy-reviewing-evidence

You’d be hard pushed to find an economist who thinks Brexit hasn’t damaged the economy. Even the people pushing Brexit to begin with mostly pointed that the economy would decrease initially. Wasn’t it Reece Moggs who told people to think 50 years ahead? I mean it is fairly obvious that putting in trade barriers doesn’t help the economy grow.

Inflation, Covid all these global shocks impacted the UK economy more than it would have without Brexit. That’s why the prognosis for the UK economy is so poor.

🤣What absolute bollocks. The UK was still paying into the EU as part of the Withdrawal Agreement, spaffing money up the wall arguing about Brexit with its neighbours, not getting great trade deals with anywhere else, making a spectacularly bad deal with Australia, realising how much money it costs to simultaneously protect your borders and have organised, safe and timely flow of goods in and out of the country, and generally showing itself to be chaotically and incompetently governed. Even if in future you believe Brexit will have been a good thing, only a fool would argue it was doing anything other than cost the UK shedloads of money at that point. Only a complete fool would think a long period of austerity running down the public sector, then the massive expense of Brexit leading straight into a pandemic was anything other than disastrously bad timing.

As a remain voter, even I know the EU is far from perfect, but you can't fix something from the outside.
Personally, I felt that there were many benefits to being in the EU despite the perceived drawbacks. Freedom of movement is the one that I personally hated losing. Every time I now find myself queuing in foreign airports, I get angry just thinking about the short-sightedness of the leave vote.
Like most people, I have friends and family who voted leave, but their reasons for doing so, in my opinion, were generally jingoistic bullshit or pure ignorance. Even my, very intelligent, 80+ year old mother voted to leave, mainly because my brother convinced her that the EU was the devil, and that England was still the centre of a great empire. Yeah right!
I remember at the time speaking to people and being told that "we were taking our country back". Hmm! How did that work out for us? We're still being inundated with boatloads of "irregular" migrants and are still powerless to send them home. Also, we're still kowtowing to the ECHR, and will still have to follow the EU's rules if we expect to trade with them, except that now we have absolutely no say in it.
As for going back in; even if they wanted/allowed us to, it would be as a lesser partner the next time around. The best that we can hope for now is that we can resurrect old friendships and forge new trade deals with our old Commonwealth partners (yes, the one's that we dropped like a stone when we originally joined the EEC). It appears that we, or anyone else for that matter, can no longer rely on our "special friend", the USA, and certainly not whilst the orange clown is resident in the White House.
The world appears to be coagulating into new trading blocks and individual countries are going to have a much tougher time of things.
Thanks Brexit!

I have zero respect for Brexit voters and hope with everything that it’s reversed but Labour would need a bloody backbone.

@beachcitygirl do you think there should be another referendum to decide whether we rejoin, or should the government start negotiations with the EU without a referendum?

It’s the single worst piece of self harm and harm to others that the English have inflicted on themselves and others in the union.
I have zero respect for Brexit voters and hope with everything that it’s reversed but Labour would need a bloody backbone.
I suspect Sir Keir starmer the kid starver will
march to the right to chase “reform voting clowns”

It’s not entirely true that we have no spare housing. There are plenty of empty investment properties, second homes, holiday lets, houses with minimal occupancy.

Do you think these properties should be requisitioned in order to deal with the housing crisis?

What about the hotels with swimming pools and pool tables? They did not look basic to me.

The problem with talking about "how Brexit damaged the UK economy" is that many of the people that voted for Brexit didn't get any benefit from the economy when it was good. Because most, if not all, of the benefits of being in the EU were for the middle and upper classes. For working-class people it just meant having to compete for jobs and houses and resources with the influx of EU migrants.

Sorry, yes that my reply to you. It doesn't make sense to me either.

I don't know if this helps

https://euaa.europa.eu/easo-asylum-report-2021/236-uk-withdrawal-eu-and-its-implications-asylum

@TopPocketFind

Arguably it does have something to do with Brexit because it has cut off a safe and legal route to the UK for those with family ties - however Professor Brooks and others are too focused on framing the returns agreement as a successful deterrent for political reasons - when it clearly wasn't working as such. It could also be the case that Albanians and other foreign nationals who were previously using fake EU ID cards to enter the UK had that route curtailed.

Otherwise a combination of reasons:
Tightened security around Calais, the "Great Wall of Calais" -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37294187
Increasing fines for lorry drivers caught carrying migrants -
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/record-fines-for-lorry-drivers-carrying-calais-migrants-pmjnxzwcw
The deaths of 39 asylum seekers in a lorry in the UK in 2019.
Covid restrictions affecting air travel.
Massive rise in asylum seekers across the EU since Covid (nearly 3 million in the last 3 years).
Previously welcoming countries such as Germany and Sweden taking a hardline approach on asylum - pushing more asylum seekers our way.

Yeah this. ^ Thankfully we left the EU before covid/2020 and 2021 lockdowns, so that £350 million a week stayed in the the UK. Helped us through covid, funding the extra workers and funds the NHS needed, and resulted in us securing 100s of 1000s of covid vaccines.

If we had still been in the EU, they would have prevented us from getting the vaccines. They did their best to do this anyway (and failed.) If we were still in the EU when covid happened, 100s of 1000s more people would have died in the UK.

I know no remainer is going to admit this though. Doesn't suit the narrative.

I bet you can't find any 'report' on how Brexit has damaged the UK economy. You can't, because it didn't damage it. The economy in the UK - and the rest of the world - got fucked by the covid pandemic, and the cost of living rise. There is zero proof of Brexit doing anything negative to the UK economy... Any 'UK economy damage' was done by the lockdowns/covid/the cost of living crisis!

The only 'negative' of Brexit, is the fact you need to have 3 months on your passport now - to travel to Europe. Who cares? Any sensible and rational person would have made sure they had at LEAST 3 months on their passport, before travelling ANYwhere on it, (before we left the EU!)

Agree with this too! ^

Agree with this. ^

If that’s aimed at me, my point was my - genuine - incomprehension about why countries don’t share refugee information irrespective of what international blocs they’re members of.

To take a very loose parallel, don’t all countries cooperate globally on arrest warrants and fugitives?

What’s in it for the EU to withhold information about asylum seekers?

Because the UK was bad at negotiating post Brexit agreements?

@Clavinovathank you! Just from the opening summary it didn’t make sense

@TopPocketFindprobably more to do with opening up new entry method which takes time after lorries down and higher migration generally across EU

I don’t understand the rationale behind non-cooperation on intelligence sharing and the like. If international treaties require states to process asylum seekers, why don’t those states cooperate in the task? Surely there’s no EU-based reason to exclude any other nation from information, whether it’s the UK, the US or anyone else?

So if Brexit had nothig to do with the increase in boat crossings, then what has?

I have - I looked at the report again several weeks ago;

Professor Brooks has written his report as though we left the Dublin Regulation on 31 January 2020 (”UK’s failure to retain or create a new returns agreement with the EU after 31 January 2020”) – however we did not exit the Dublin Agreement until the end of 2020 (31 December 2020). Indeed, the Home Office submitted more returns requests under the Dublin Agreement in 2020 (over 8,000 requests - but resulting in only 105 returns) than it did in 2019 - Professor Brooks only gives figures for 2019.

He links regulatory changes in 2020 to the rise of small boat arrivals in 2020 (8,466) - however the regulatory changes he refers to did not occur until January 2021. He also notes that the ”biggest dip in non-small boat irregular migration happens in 2020” - particularly by air - but he hasn’t considered that Covid restrictions are the probable cause of the dip. The Brexit transition year and Covid seem to have passed him by – or perhaps he is trying to bend the facts to his conclusion.

In addition, Professor Brooks claimed in June 2016 (link in his report) that, 'if anyone sets foot first in Greece or Italy [from where the majority of asylum seekers were arriving] and makes a claim for asylum in Britain later they can be returned to that country'
*
His reference to Greece in particular was substantially incorrect at the time as the UK had not sent any Dublin returns to Greece after 2010 – following an ECJ ruling in 2011 which the UK and Irish governments lost - and after the EU had suspended all Dublin returns to Greece. There was a partial resumption by some member states in 2017 - but not by the UK, since conditions in the refugee camps in Greece had not materially improved and the Home Office was still open to legal challenge on any returns. Not to mention that 'first safe country' is misleading in any case.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16285573

It's not just the DA that was lost with Brexit, it was access EURODAC, co-operation with other countries

The UK left the EU without any deal or agreements on refugees/asylum seekers in place

Have you read it? Any key points?

The summary seems odd. ‘whereby anyone making the crossing could be returned’. That wasn’t the case otherwise the rest of the EU could do the same and the figures under the DA wouldn’t be around 500. Every country would send back as many as they wanted.

Everyone is struggling for the same reason. Look at @Clavinovapost on how many were sent back. That is similar everywhere. Anyway watching something so will read later.

https://www.durham.ac.uk/departments/academic/law/news-and-events/news/2023/february/new-report-on-small-boat-crossings-launched-by-professor-thom-brooks/

I am sure you have seen this link before

It’s your claim, feel free to provide evidence. Germany and other EU countries struggle with the same issue and they haven’t left, can you say why that would be the case?