Childcare is not a dumping ground for the unemployable

So should we close half the nurseries? Who is going to care for all those children?

We all want a few different things don't we? And they're not all compatible.

We want childcare to be as cheap as possible.
But also very high quality.
And also there needs to be lots of childcare places so lots of childcare workers willing to do long hours, stressful work with a smile for minimum wage.
But no one wants to pay more taxes to fully subsidise childcare.
And we definitely don't want to pay out of work benefits.
But we don't want to work with people who might struggle to work...

If you don't have a qualification in childcare, you should not be caring for other people's children for payment.

I have to say I haven't read the whole thread

I blame Tony Blair

I'm a NNEB nursery nurse, this was phased out by him in the 90s and replaced by NVQ.

I loved my job but as the years went on and fewer NNEB nursery nurses were working in nurseries things went drastically downhill

5 years ago a room leader gave a child with a pasta allergy tinned spaghetti thinking it was "the same as tinned beans" She is now manager of that privately run nursery.

Few have understanding of what was once called "behaviour management " which can mean toddler rooms are utterly chaotic and utterly miserable for quieter children

Staff (in my experience) aren't keen to take children outside on cooler days so consequently spend far too much time indoors

And what's with all this hand print art work????

Rant over

I left and set up a small cleaning business, personally I wouldn't send any child to a nursery these days

As a previous poster commented "child care, " was on a par with "health and beauty" - not careers for the brightest sparks! It has always been looked down upon.

Yes absolutely this.

Haven't noticed a deterioration in staff at the setting I have been going to for 15 years but staff are more exhausted since Boris put the ratio up and I question more how safe it is for all.

They shouldn't be teaching young children if they aren't suitably qualified.

Yes Tony Blair has a lot to answer for and also the last few Tory goverments who did not reverse his ridiculous polices, although it would have been difficult putting the genie back in the bottle.

But I assume that you wouldn't want to to these jobs, so why would you expect anyone else to?

If no-one want to do them then what is the alternative apart from importing labour and most people don't want that.

"But surely not in jobs where they are influential to the next generation? Who wants their child being looked after by someone clearly not up for the job."

Who wants anyone looked after by someone not up for the job.

The old saying "pay peanuts, get monkeys" spring to mind. Everyone complains about the cost of childcare yet wants high end staff. You can't have it both ways.

I think this issue starts with GCSE choices. It's got worse since the NNEB was taken away and nvqs came in. Less academic students are pushed towards doing childcare GCSE because it's seen as an easier option. I don't think that perception has changed much, less academic students are pushed towards childcare or adult care. The people doing that pushing have no idea how demanding those roles are, so you end up with a revolving door of people who are well-meaning but struggle to do the job well. Or who actually don't like children!
For @UnsolvedMysteriesRobertStack are these employees actually apprentices who have been sent to your nursery and they come with funding so it's someone in numbers who is cheap? That might be part of the problem. If not, whoever is doing the hiring needs your supervisor to be honest with them. The real problem is that if you have 5 interviewees and they're all mediocre but you need a body to keep a room ratio right, the best mediocre person is better than no person at all.

This is why I will never leave my child in a nursery.

First of all PIP is not means tested. You don't have to be unemployed to get it either. It's meant to help people with disabilities pay for things to make their lives as close to healthy people as possible. Secondly, my granddaughter is on PIP she has tried to work a few times but due to having so much time off sick or in hospital she is never kept on for long. She could probably manage a part time job but then her other benefits (UC) would be reduced so much that she couldn't afford to maintain her independence. What is she supposed to do? Her disease is life limiting there is no cure.

Are they on apprenticeships or is your employer getting paid by DWP to employ these people

I could have written this same issue myself.
How can one person sit in the same place for over an hour and watch everyone rush around doing everything?
Step over something instead of picking it up?
Not know what a parsnip is ?
Can't read a full sentence without stopping to try and pronounce a word.
See someone struggle to carry something but not help?
Won't say hello or acknowledge someone's presence?
Can only read a digital clock ?
Not know what an emery board or a wig is ?
And paid the same as me ?

But surely not in jobs where they are influential to the next generation? Who wants their child being looked after by someone clearly not up for the job. My 2 year old granddaughter brought home a card she'd made in nursery. They'd written 'Happy Farthers Day'!

For that to happen Labour would need to start acting like Labour again and not Tory lite

I don't think it's that simple. The global financial crash of 2008 induced a recession, and Britain already had a massive deficit at the time. If Labour's actions recently are anything to go by (cutting fuel for pensioners and all that) I'm not convinced they would have handled the situation much differently.

Maybe we wouldn't have had such a revolving door of, shall we say, memorable prime ministers. Maybe they would have tried to push through another referendum on Brexit at the time. But in general, my cynical opinion is that most of the same austerity policies would probably have ended up being implemented.

There's a reason the Tories started eating into Labour strongholds, and a reason Reform is garnering support in the same constituencies now. There's a perception Labour abandoned the working class they used to represent. Half of them went to the same elite schools as the Conservatives. People feel like they're just Tories in different-coloured ties, these days.

I would love for Labour to prove me wrong and start valuing care work in some real, tangible way. I just don't see it happening.

We had 14 years of the Tories prior to last year. We had 13 years of Labour prior to that. Things were never this bad between 1997 and 2010 so we can do the maths on that one.

Do you really think Labour would have done much different? I can't say I do. They're not doing much different now.

I think the political class are all too financially comfortable to care. They don't live on the same planet as the people who rely on these services.

God that's mad! Used to be that way in Ireland too to be fair but for the last decade or so you've needed a qualification

This. I blame years of Tory government only concerned with profit and to hell with anything else. I've tried explaining this to my 92 year old father, staunch Tory and possible Reform supporter, who will do his care when he needs it, when care workers are so undervalued and scarce. Dad thinks profits are everything but kicked off when told he'd have to pay to have his ears syringed. Wants the best care, but doesn't want to pay for it.

That's not true, or at least not legally - unqualified staff do count in ratios and can be unsupervised

In settings on the early years register, the manager of the setting must hold an approved qualification of level 3 or above and at least half of all other staff must hold at least an approved level 2 qualification.

For each age group, one member of staff must have level 3.

The other half can be unqualified. Even students, apprentices and volunteers over age 16 /17 can be counted in ratio.